Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Magic Weapons and Keyword Inheritance
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="DracoSuave" data-source="post: 4345167" data-attributes="member: 71571"><p>However, despite what customer service is saying, there are three keywords items do get that -break the game- if keyword inheritance is permitted.</p><p></p><p>At-Will.</p><p>Encounter.</p><p>Daily.</p><p></p><p>Yes, these are -defined- as keywords on page 55.</p><p></p><p>According to customer service's logic, that means therefore, that the at-will keyword is inherited by all powers using a frost weapon.</p><p></p><p>Let that sink in for a bit.</p><p></p><p>ALL POWERS USED WITH A FROST WEAPON ARE NOW AT-WILL.</p><p></p><p>Second:</p><p></p><p>ALL POWERS USED WITH A FROST WEAPON ARE NOW DAILY.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This cannot possibly be. This is an impossible situation that breaks the game, ergo, the situation -cannot- be the correct interpretation.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Let's get even more rediculous with this. If power inheritance worked like that, then item powers would also inherit the key-words of class powers used with it.</p><p></p><p>Let's say I use Unyielding Avalanche.</p><p></p><p>This is a power with the keywords Daily, Healing, Martial, Stance, and Weapon.</p><p></p><p>Setting Daily aside, this means that item powers used with it inherit the keywords Stance and Weapon. So, let's say I use it with a frost weapon's Daily. Now the Frost Weapon's Daily power has the Keywords Healing, Martial, Stance, and Weapon.</p><p></p><p>This applies the following rules baggage to it:</p><p></p><p>The effect lasts for five minutes or one encounter, and a weapon is required to use it.</p><p></p><p>Well the last bit's sort of 'duh, it's the weapon.' But the Stance keyword applies a persistant rule on the Frost Weapon's power. Now it's -on- and remains on.... so it continues to keep the keywords Healing, Martial, Stance, Cold, and Weapon.</p><p></p><p>Now I Brute Strike. The Brute Strike inherits the keywords Healing, Stance, Cold. Now that Brute Strike stays in play all encounter....</p><p></p><p>...And now the original item power inherits Reliable.</p><p></p><p>So now, the frost weapon's power is a Daily Cold Healing Martial Reliable Stance Weapon...</p><p></p><p>...And now any power I use is a Reliable Cold Stance of Healing Weapons.</p><p></p><p>And Daily.</p><p></p><p>Can you not see how this interpretation, when applied... becomes REDICULOUS?</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is counter-intuitive. Foolish. Wrong.</p><p></p><p></p><p>The grokable interpretation is this:</p><p></p><p>You use a power to change the keyword of the -damage-, and the damage's keyword changes. That's what it -says- it does, that's what the example says in the book, and it -makes sense-, and it does not BREAK the game to do so.</p><p></p><p>Powers that were Daily don't become At-Will just because you used a Frost Weapon, and all your At-Will abilities didn't just suddenly become Daily just because you used a wand.</p><p></p><p>Like racial powers and class powers, magic item powers often have keywords that indicate their damage or effect types. When you use a magic item as part of a racial power or a class power, the keywords of the item’s power and the other power all apply. For instance, if a paladin uses a flaming sword to attack with a power that deals radiant damage, the power deals both fire damage and radiant damage.</p><p></p><p></p><p>Can someone please tell me where in this paragraph it suddenly stopped talking about damage and effect types of item powers and mentions that the powers themselves are inheriting keywords? Reading the entire paragraph it should be obvious that it's talking about damage/effect types.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="DracoSuave, post: 4345167, member: 71571"] However, despite what customer service is saying, there are three keywords items do get that -break the game- if keyword inheritance is permitted. At-Will. Encounter. Daily. Yes, these are -defined- as keywords on page 55. According to customer service's logic, that means therefore, that the at-will keyword is inherited by all powers using a frost weapon. Let that sink in for a bit. ALL POWERS USED WITH A FROST WEAPON ARE NOW AT-WILL. Second: ALL POWERS USED WITH A FROST WEAPON ARE NOW DAILY. This cannot possibly be. This is an impossible situation that breaks the game, ergo, the situation -cannot- be the correct interpretation. Let's get even more rediculous with this. If power inheritance worked like that, then item powers would also inherit the key-words of class powers used with it. Let's say I use Unyielding Avalanche. This is a power with the keywords Daily, Healing, Martial, Stance, and Weapon. Setting Daily aside, this means that item powers used with it inherit the keywords Stance and Weapon. So, let's say I use it with a frost weapon's Daily. Now the Frost Weapon's Daily power has the Keywords Healing, Martial, Stance, and Weapon. This applies the following rules baggage to it: The effect lasts for five minutes or one encounter, and a weapon is required to use it. Well the last bit's sort of 'duh, it's the weapon.' But the Stance keyword applies a persistant rule on the Frost Weapon's power. Now it's -on- and remains on.... so it continues to keep the keywords Healing, Martial, Stance, Cold, and Weapon. Now I Brute Strike. The Brute Strike inherits the keywords Healing, Stance, Cold. Now that Brute Strike stays in play all encounter.... ...And now the original item power inherits Reliable. So now, the frost weapon's power is a Daily Cold Healing Martial Reliable Stance Weapon... ...And now any power I use is a Reliable Cold Stance of Healing Weapons. And Daily. Can you not see how this interpretation, when applied... becomes REDICULOUS? This is counter-intuitive. Foolish. Wrong. The grokable interpretation is this: You use a power to change the keyword of the -damage-, and the damage's keyword changes. That's what it -says- it does, that's what the example says in the book, and it -makes sense-, and it does not BREAK the game to do so. Powers that were Daily don't become At-Will just because you used a Frost Weapon, and all your At-Will abilities didn't just suddenly become Daily just because you used a wand. Like racial powers and class powers, magic item powers often have keywords that indicate their damage or effect types. When you use a magic item as part of a racial power or a class power, the keywords of the item’s power and the other power all apply. For instance, if a paladin uses a flaming sword to attack with a power that deals radiant damage, the power deals both fire damage and radiant damage. Can someone please tell me where in this paragraph it suddenly stopped talking about damage and effect types of item powers and mentions that the powers themselves are inheriting keywords? Reading the entire paragraph it should be obvious that it's talking about damage/effect types. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Magic Weapons and Keyword Inheritance
Top