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<blockquote data-quote="harassed" data-source="post: 5921209" data-attributes="member: 6678961">Been reading through the playtest material and, on my first pass, I thought I'd completely misunderstood how magical attacks worked.&nbsp; My initial impression was that melee attacks were the traditional D&amp;D d20+mods vs AC but that magical attacks auto-hit.&nbsp; Then, depending on the spell description, the target could make a save to avoid/mitigate the effect.On re-reading, I noticed that magical attacks stated a melee/ranged attack was required but possibly followed by a save for the target to avoid/mitigate the effect.On a more detailed read through of the spell listings, I think both cases are true.&nbsp; At the bottom of&nbsp; p24 of the &quot;How to Play&quot; booklet, the section on &quot;Attack Spells&quot; suggests that _some_ spells require a melee or ranged attack roll and the next section on p25 &quot;Spells and Saving Throws&quot; states that _some_ spell effects may be avoided if a target makes a successful save.Where the confusion comes in is with the spell lists themselves.&nbsp; For instance, the 1st level wizard spell &quot;Burning Hands&quot; (p26) makes no mention of an attack roll at all but does mention half damage on a successful save.&nbsp; As it's a cone effect, does that mean everyone in the cone is automatically hit but can save for half damage or do you have to roll to hit (vs AC) first?Another example is the 1st level cleric spell &quot;Command&quot; (p27) which again makes no mention of an attack roll - and in fact, rolling vs AC seems stupid for a charm effect, anyway which is presumably why Will existed in 4e.&nbsp; The description of Command does again mention a Wisdom save to resist the spell entirely (unless the target has fewer than x HP).&nbsp; If there is was attack roll required, then the cleric has to roll d20+mods vs AC to &quot;hit&quot;, then the target gets to save to avoid the effect entirely which massively reduces the chance of the spell working even if the to-hit roll is successful.On the other hand, spells such as &quot;Shocking Grasp&quot;and &quot;Spiritual Hammer&quot; (both p30) explicitly state that a melee attack roll is required.It appears, therefore,&nbsp; that only those spells which explicitly state they require a melee or ranged attack need any sort of to-hit mechanic, with the remainder either applying their effects whatever, or requiring the target to save.&nbsp; While I actually like this mechanic (if it's correct), it does mean that players playing spellcasting characters would be in the interesting situation of not having to roll any dice at all for some magical attacks.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="harassed, post: 5921209, member: 6678961"] Been reading through the playtest material and, on my first pass, I thought I'd completely misunderstood how magical attacks worked. My initial impression was that melee attacks were the traditional D&D d20+mods vs AC but that magical attacks auto-hit. Then, depending on the spell description, the target could make a save to avoid/mitigate the effect. On re-reading, I noticed that magical attacks stated a melee/ranged attack was required but possibly followed by a save for the target to avoid/mitigate the effect. On a more detailed read through of the spell listings, I think both cases are true. At the bottom of p24 of the "How to Play" booklet, the section on "Attack Spells" suggests that _some_ spells require a melee or ranged attack roll and the next section on p25 "Spells and Saving Throws" states that _some_ spell effects may be avoided if a target makes a successful save. Where the confusion comes in is with the spell lists themselves. For instance, the 1st level wizard spell "Burning Hands" (p26) makes no mention of an attack roll at all but does mention half damage on a successful save. As it's a cone effect, does that mean everyone in the cone is automatically hit but can save for half damage or do you have to roll to hit (vs AC) first? Another example is the 1st level cleric spell "Command" (p27) which again makes no mention of an attack roll - and in fact, rolling vs AC seems stupid for a charm effect, anyway which is presumably why Will existed in 4e. The description of Command does again mention a Wisdom save to resist the spell entirely (unless the target has fewer than x HP). If there is was attack roll required, then the cleric has to roll d20+mods vs AC to "hit", then the target gets to save to avoid the effect entirely which massively reduces the chance of the spell working even if the to-hit roll is successful. On the other hand, spells such as "Shocking Grasp"and "Spiritual Hammer" (both p30) explicitly state that a melee attack roll is required. It appears, therefore, that only those spells which explicitly state they require a melee or ranged attack need any sort of to-hit mechanic, with the remainder either applying their effects whatever, or requiring the target to save. While I actually like this mechanic (if it's correct), it does mean that players playing spellcasting characters would be in the interesting situation of not having to roll any dice at all for some magical attacks. [/QUOTE]

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