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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Syrsuro" data-source="post: 4124407" data-attributes="member: 58162">I, personally, am glad to see this change.When the 3.0 rules came out, my immediate reaction was to focus on two things:First - level advancement seemed too quick.  But that isn't the point here....Second - I really disliked the magic item creation rules being spelled out and so easy (for those with the right feats).   And, as much as I dislike the proliferation of magic shops, I accept that they are a logical consequence of it being so easy to make magic items.(Of course, after several years of 3.x, I became focused on entirely different issues).So with both the lack magic shops (only natural, imho) and (presumeably - although we don't know the details) the greater difficulty in making items, I expect to be happier.  I have always seen magic items as more 'relics of some earlier era', not something being churned out enmasse by every tom, dick and harry high level character with nothing better to do.  Of course - since I prefer my own setting (when not getting roped into DMing Living Whatever) I can always leave the magic shops out.  But if the rules specify certain conditions (tons of magic, easy creation, magic shops on every street corner, etc.), that pushes player expectation in the same direction.  Not only that, but easy creation, excessive magic and magic shops all tie together.  If you assume easy creation, then it is only logical to expect to find lots of items.  And if the players find lots of magic items, they expect to be able to buy and sell that magic.  Which means all those +1 swords, etc. inevitably lose their appeal as 'magic' and instead become pointy cash (and are actually, imho, even less exciting to find than their equivalent value in coins).But if you make item creation harder, this logically leads to their being less magic to find.  And if they find less (pointless - or pointy) magic, you eliminate the need for those magic shops.And personally, I blame the whole shebang on the insistance that NPCs have to follow the same creation rules as the PCs.  If you give the PCs a (hypothetical) +2 to their attacks and defense from their magic items (and it is fun to find magic items), you need to counterbalance that somehow in the NPCs to make them competitive. Which means that every NPC that the players meet effectively has to be equipped roughly competively with the PCs.  Which means that once the PCs have +2 gear, they will keep finding +1 and +2 gear on their opponents (and an occasional +3 that really counts as treasure rather than pointy cash).  And thus will need something to do with those items.But if you can give the NPCs the ability to challenge the PCs through some other means (whatever that means is - and simply giving them the appropriate bonus by fiat is the simplest way), then magic becomes something rare, and thus something noteworthy and memorable.  And stops being the junk you toss in your backpack and haul back to town.For those that object to this idea (and I'm sure there will be some) - consider two encounters.  Encounter 1:  An NPC built according to the dictates of 3.5, and Encounter 2:  The same NPC, stripped of his (pointless) magic (but perhaps still keeping an item or two that the players might actually have a use for), but with his stats artficially inflated to match the statistics of Encounter 2 (i.e. - you take away a +2 sword and give him a +2 to hit and damage, etc.), and then provided with a treasure chest holding gems worth as much as the players would have gotten when they sold the pointless magic.  Essentially the same combat (aside from a minor difference if they players disarmed the NPC or if they have access to antimagic) and the same end result (aside from the fact that they don't have to convert the sword to cash, they can just horde the gems).  And personally -- Encounter 2 sounds more appealing to me (I don't know why, but I'd rather find 1000 gp worth of gems than a +1 sword (assuming I already have a +2 sword - although that could just  be me).   And as a DM I prefer encounter 2, because it means I don't have to either have magic shops or create an artifical justification for why there aren't any.As an aside:  Since I don't believe in magic shops, and yet players DO occasionally get stuff they want to sell:  If the players take the item to your typical market in town I have always taken the tack that they are happy to buy stuff.  For what they think its worth...."Suuuure that's a magic sword.  Uh, huh.  Right.  Tell ya what.  I can see that its a fine weapon.  Masterwork quality.  I'll buy it for 200 gp.  You want more?  Go find someone who needs a 'magic sword'.  Good luck..."  (And if the players want to get 'the real value' out of the sword, that's exactly what they'll have to do.)Carl</blockquote>

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