Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Mainstream News Discovers D&D's Species Terminology Change
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Honorable Intent" data-source="post: 9551956" data-attributes="member: 7049161"><p>Interesting! I'll have to look into Level Up: A5e.</p><p></p><p>Yes, it was! Alongside the decision to change attributes to be their bonuses. It was an attempt to use occam's razor to find the simplest (ergo laziest) solution. Would it have been better to find a way to use the non-bonus increasing stats (11, 13, 15, etc) rather than axe them entirely? I don't know. Perhaps they attempted to. But by axing them, they chose the "path of least design", which I shorthand to lazy here.</p><p></p><p>You seem to attribute greater malice to my use of lazy here. As I state above, it is lazy because it is the "path of least design", the path where they were required to put the least effort into it possible to design a feature/naming convention. Changing a name without changing the actual feature much to fit the name (after all, species are known for having distinctly different musculatures, capacities for intellect (dolphins versus snails), and other distinguishing factors that one might call "ability score modifiers", so the primary change to Species versus the prior was not in line with the implicit meaning of "species" versus the explicit meaning. When you pick a word, that word carries implicit meaning with it. That means you should pick words with specific implicit meaning for a rules function.</p><p></p><p>Another good example of poor naming convention in 5e (both 2014 and 2024) was "action" versus "bonus action". Originally, bonus actions were intended to be less common, evidently, but given their actual usage in the final version of the game, a different name would have been significantly less confusing to new players. I cannot tell you how many new players I've taught have thought they could use every single bonus action available to them because, after all, it was a <em>bonus</em> <strong>action</strong>.</p><p></p><p>See above.</p><p></p><p>I would like to unequivocally state also that I do not condemn the devs and their work; I don't think the end result of certain aspects of the design being lazy (read also: underdesigned, minimally designed, however you particularly want to phrase it) is their fault. I believe the fault lies higher up in the hands of WotC's administration and management, given their history of trying to make as much money as possible while investing minimally into it. I think the dev team was instructed to keep such changes simple, even when creating 5e, because they wanted to make something with broad appeal rather than deep appeal to maximize profit margins.</p><p></p><p>The choice to continue doing so and making some fairly significant rules changes while claiming that 2014 and 2024 are "both 5e" (despite 2024 being effectively 5.5e; yes, you can use 3e material in 3.5e most of the time and nothing changes, but that doesn't make it not a revised edition) and saying you can keep your things from 2014, so long as they haven't been reprinted, as well as their goals of profiting from external work (3rd party supplements on DriveThruRPG and DM's Guild, the attempt to change the OGL to harvest the profits of others) indicates that their top goal as a company is to make money, not to make a good, well-thought out, well-designed product. Those two often coincide, but where they don't, WotC will choose profit every time.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Honorable Intent, post: 9551956, member: 7049161"] Interesting! I'll have to look into Level Up: A5e. Yes, it was! Alongside the decision to change attributes to be their bonuses. It was an attempt to use occam's razor to find the simplest (ergo laziest) solution. Would it have been better to find a way to use the non-bonus increasing stats (11, 13, 15, etc) rather than axe them entirely? I don't know. Perhaps they attempted to. But by axing them, they chose the "path of least design", which I shorthand to lazy here. You seem to attribute greater malice to my use of lazy here. As I state above, it is lazy because it is the "path of least design", the path where they were required to put the least effort into it possible to design a feature/naming convention. Changing a name without changing the actual feature much to fit the name (after all, species are known for having distinctly different musculatures, capacities for intellect (dolphins versus snails), and other distinguishing factors that one might call "ability score modifiers", so the primary change to Species versus the prior was not in line with the implicit meaning of "species" versus the explicit meaning. When you pick a word, that word carries implicit meaning with it. That means you should pick words with specific implicit meaning for a rules function. Another good example of poor naming convention in 5e (both 2014 and 2024) was "action" versus "bonus action". Originally, bonus actions were intended to be less common, evidently, but given their actual usage in the final version of the game, a different name would have been significantly less confusing to new players. I cannot tell you how many new players I've taught have thought they could use every single bonus action available to them because, after all, it was a [I]bonus[/I] [B]action[/B]. See above. I would like to unequivocally state also that I do not condemn the devs and their work; I don't think the end result of certain aspects of the design being lazy (read also: underdesigned, minimally designed, however you particularly want to phrase it) is their fault. I believe the fault lies higher up in the hands of WotC's administration and management, given their history of trying to make as much money as possible while investing minimally into it. I think the dev team was instructed to keep such changes simple, even when creating 5e, because they wanted to make something with broad appeal rather than deep appeal to maximize profit margins. The choice to continue doing so and making some fairly significant rules changes while claiming that 2014 and 2024 are "both 5e" (despite 2024 being effectively 5.5e; yes, you can use 3e material in 3.5e most of the time and nothing changes, but that doesn't make it not a revised edition) and saying you can keep your things from 2014, so long as they haven't been reprinted, as well as their goals of profiting from external work (3rd party supplements on DriveThruRPG and DM's Guild, the attempt to change the OGL to harvest the profits of others) indicates that their top goal as a company is to make money, not to make a good, well-thought out, well-designed product. Those two often coincide, but where they don't, WotC will choose profit every time. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Mainstream News Discovers D&D's Species Terminology Change
Top