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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Make Characters being affected from conditions without telling Players explicitly?
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<blockquote data-quote="Quickleaf" data-source="post: 7196309" data-attributes="member: 20323"><p>[MENTION=6804713]lkwpeter[/MENTION] I'd encourage you to think a little differently about your scenario. I'd conceive of this as a puzzle / trap; in fact you may wish to look at the Unearthed Arcana trap guidelines.</p><p></p><p>Don't lead with a saving throw (even a d20 roll the players don't initially realize is a save) - it will put already suspicious players on high alert. Treat it as an environmental illusion...which players can take an action to disbelieve / see thru with an Investigation check as normal (or cast dispel magic, or seen thru with true seeing, or touch to reveal it's an illusion, etc). There's no save for environmental illusions (see the DMG "dungeon hazards" IIRC). Essentially what you have are things that LOOK like will-o'-wisps but are actually illusions. I'd just narrate it and let the players reach their own conclusions / devise their own strategies.</p><p></p><p>I'd would flesh this out a lot more than you have. What you have now are barebones.</p><p></p><p>What do the wisps "want"? I have no idea. What's the story behind the mystical forest and these wisps in your campaign world? I always start from the story first. When I find myself getting stuck, it's usually a sign I haven't thought out the story logistics/details. For example, is it an ancient forest imbued with elven high magic to conceal an elven sacred site? So that would indicate the wisps either seek to lead creatures AWAY from the sacred site or into environmental hazards in the woods...but that elves might be able to bypass some of its effects (I.e. Suggesting charm/sleep effects).</p><p></p><p>It sounds like the primary conflict you wish to set up is a CHOICE among the players: "Do we split the party going after these wisps?" This means you need to devote further thought to set it up, as opposed to relying on charm magic.</p><p></p><p>Most players are savvy enough to know "don't follow will-o'-wisps in a spooky forest alone." So they begin with a disincentive. You need to give them a reason to WANT to follow...and I highly recommend this reason be tailored to each PC/player and their goals/interests/backstory. For example, say a Rogue PC has a personal goal of finding his missing sister. You'd have a wisp appear to speak to him in his sister's voice or seem to reveal images of her in its light as if through a crystal ball, and then the wisp would slowly float away (in a different direction from all other wisps). And if the player manages to reach/find the wisp, I'd have something they could gain/learn - so it's not just a trick, there actually ARE mystical secrets in the woods enticing trespassers.</p><p></p><p>SECOND, it sounds like the main risk you want to include is "getting lost." In many campaign styles, however, "getting lost" is meaningless - it just means the DM narrates more time passing, and in the case of a separated party it means some players being disconnected from the fun. It doesn't MEAN anything. In order to make "getting lost" mean something you need at least one of the following:</p><p></p><p>1. An old school style of play tracking resources closely. In this context getting lost could = death if you run out of food/water. I see few groups doing this anymore.</p><p></p><p>2. A deadline that makes time a resource the PCs need to manage. In this case you'll need to double down on any enticements you offer PCs when trying to lure them into the woods, because they have the deadline in the back of their minds.</p><p></p><p>3. Interesting/challenging vignettes of what may be encountered in the woods. Lost characters would encounter these things and have to find ways to overcome them without the support of their party.</p><p></p><p>4. A story device to sow discord/mistrust between party & lost members (once they meet back up). Typically this should be foreshadowed in advance (e.g. Beware the doppelganagers of the wood!) and supported with "phantom d20 rolls" called for by the DM and secret notes.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Quickleaf, post: 7196309, member: 20323"] [MENTION=6804713]lkwpeter[/MENTION] I'd encourage you to think a little differently about your scenario. I'd conceive of this as a puzzle / trap; in fact you may wish to look at the Unearthed Arcana trap guidelines. Don't lead with a saving throw (even a d20 roll the players don't initially realize is a save) - it will put already suspicious players on high alert. Treat it as an environmental illusion...which players can take an action to disbelieve / see thru with an Investigation check as normal (or cast dispel magic, or seen thru with true seeing, or touch to reveal it's an illusion, etc). There's no save for environmental illusions (see the DMG "dungeon hazards" IIRC). Essentially what you have are things that LOOK like will-o'-wisps but are actually illusions. I'd just narrate it and let the players reach their own conclusions / devise their own strategies. I'd would flesh this out a lot more than you have. What you have now are barebones. What do the wisps "want"? I have no idea. What's the story behind the mystical forest and these wisps in your campaign world? I always start from the story first. When I find myself getting stuck, it's usually a sign I haven't thought out the story logistics/details. For example, is it an ancient forest imbued with elven high magic to conceal an elven sacred site? So that would indicate the wisps either seek to lead creatures AWAY from the sacred site or into environmental hazards in the woods...but that elves might be able to bypass some of its effects (I.e. Suggesting charm/sleep effects). It sounds like the primary conflict you wish to set up is a CHOICE among the players: "Do we split the party going after these wisps?" This means you need to devote further thought to set it up, as opposed to relying on charm magic. Most players are savvy enough to know "don't follow will-o'-wisps in a spooky forest alone." So they begin with a disincentive. You need to give them a reason to WANT to follow...and I highly recommend this reason be tailored to each PC/player and their goals/interests/backstory. For example, say a Rogue PC has a personal goal of finding his missing sister. You'd have a wisp appear to speak to him in his sister's voice or seem to reveal images of her in its light as if through a crystal ball, and then the wisp would slowly float away (in a different direction from all other wisps). And if the player manages to reach/find the wisp, I'd have something they could gain/learn - so it's not just a trick, there actually ARE mystical secrets in the woods enticing trespassers. SECOND, it sounds like the main risk you want to include is "getting lost." In many campaign styles, however, "getting lost" is meaningless - it just means the DM narrates more time passing, and in the case of a separated party it means some players being disconnected from the fun. It doesn't MEAN anything. In order to make "getting lost" mean something you need at least one of the following: 1. An old school style of play tracking resources closely. In this context getting lost could = death if you run out of food/water. I see few groups doing this anymore. 2. A deadline that makes time a resource the PCs need to manage. In this case you'll need to double down on any enticements you offer PCs when trying to lure them into the woods, because they have the deadline in the back of their minds. 3. Interesting/challenging vignettes of what may be encountered in the woods. Lost characters would encounter these things and have to find ways to overcome them without the support of their party. 4. A story device to sow discord/mistrust between party & lost members (once they meet back up). Typically this should be foreshadowed in advance (e.g. Beware the doppelganagers of the wood!) and supported with "phantom d20 rolls" called for by the DM and secret notes. [/QUOTE]
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