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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Blue" data-source="post: 8038307" data-attributes="member: 20564">Random thoughts as reading through, before letting myself get swayed by what others are saying.Item #1<ol> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">At 1st level there's now an average of a 7 point spread (evaluating disadvantage as -5) between proficient and not - more than the swing at 20th before.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Grapples became much more powerful, as often the grappled person will now also have disadvantage in addition to no proficiency.  Athletics or Acrobatics almost becomes a skill tax.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">For some oft-used skills, either in general like Perception or character specific like Survival for a ranger, it no longer is enough to have a good ability score - you MUST have taken the skill otherwise you are very bad at what you do.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">We get odd cases like knowing what's in a city - which doesn't map to a skill, would be a straight Intelligence check, but wanting to know about the different quarters of the city which might be a INT (History) check now has some people with a disadvantage.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ol">Some spells like Web or Maze require ability checks to greet free of.  If a spell allows a skill, instead of that being easier for some, it's now a lot harder for most.</li> </ol>I know you're looking for a + thread, I'm bring these up because I want to contribute better ways to reach your goal than this.  The penalty on not having the skill is the biggest issue here, so I'd suggest instead just standard proficiency in a skill is what is currently expertise, and expertise is advantage as you say it.  This give a +4 at 1st level up to a +12.  Combine that with increasing the higher difficulties on the DC chart, which mimics the increases in difficulty for opposed rolls.  This makes proficiency in a skill worth a lot more, but without the huge swing down.  I still worry a bit about grapples, but hey.Item #2Okay, reading this, I see that I need to reverse what I said above. The change here will already address the proficiency issues. The negatives I pointed with your idea become more pronounced. This solves point #1, and doing anything above will overshoot. So ignore anything you aor I wrote for #1, it's no good. Maybe have skill proficiency as 2+proficiency bonus and keep your expertise="advantage".Among offensive casters, this strongly favors those with larger spells prepared/known. Because going against a proficient save and both DC and save get proficiency, but go against a non-proficient save and any chance to avoid the effect goes lower and lower at a much greater rate. That's not a bad thing, just an observation.Fine with the cap at 18, works well with this. Can I make a suggestion that you also change ASI to be +1/+1 only? Leaves the cap a bit further away instead of just rushing for it.Item #4I like this.  I would actually suggest breaking languages out and just giving them as boons when you are around them long enough - they are often like ribbon abilities, hard to hold a candle to skill or tools.Item #5Hitting half the time will make characters like rogues very swingy.  A few good or bad rounds in a row would be a huge difference in their output.  It makes abilities like paladin smite or battlemaster maneuvers that you apply after the roll is a hit much more powerful.  The Shield spell is a lot more powerful.  All critical boosters are less powerful.Minor increase in time rolling (working out advantage) for every roll vs. saving a having to do a damage roll half the time is a small time savings.  However, what it does do is remove intuitiveness of the odds, which is really a big thing.  There was an article a few months back about that, about good game design and talking about how dice pools reduce intuitive understanding of the player of the odds and the problems that causes.Item #6Criticals become deadly (though less likely with #5) so combat is every more swingy. Barbarians become glass cannons - they can offset the penalty to others, but it also offsets the penalty to hit them, and even with resistance, 2x low number is not a high number. Paladin smite and magic missiles win the day. Actions that grant advantage, like proning someone, will become standard fare as they will end combats much quicker. A caster will much more likely eliminate a foe taking the help action for the fighter than with casting an attack cantrip. Because with HP so low it's not attrition any more, it's who can get the hit in. Most PCs in Tier 2 can go down to a single hit, and die outright to a crit.Sorry, I shouldn't go on. You want a + thread, but improvements I make need to be able to address the down the stream effects of what you are suggesting, and all of the changes have negative sides as well as positive sides. And the positive suggestions I have are how to avoid the negative, which usually seems to be by going for a different solution then you are.</blockquote>

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