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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lord Zardoz" data-source="post: 3914336" data-attributes="member: 704">It can be done, but it is very difficult to make such a fight genuinely challenging for the players past a certain point.  I think the cutoff for standard Hobgoblins / Orcs (the 1HD fodder) presenting a real challenge without mob rules is 5th or 6th level.  Once you start getting iterative attacks, going melee against a warrior is just not an option.  The standard AC for the fodder will suck, and the typical bonus on a warrior is +9 (assuming 4 points for Wpn Focus, magical weapon, and str bonus of +2 on a 5th level character).  Adding in Cleave and / or Great Cleave makes it even worse.If your party has access to Cleave, Combat Reflexes + Reach weapons, or good area control spells, things get even harder for the fodder.  Essentially, you need to start throwing in some dedicated support types, or CR appropriate champions.  Happily, there are a number of things you can do to make life harder for the players.1)  Terrain considerations are key.  If you can give the Fodder decent cover and put some Difficult terrain between them and the players, the fodder can get a few free rounds of ranged weapons fire, and prevent the players from using 5 foot step.  Using natural darkness can also deny line of sight, which prevents most casters from targeting specific locations.2)  Traps:  If the ambush is prepared, you can also throw in various traps to further damage and hinder the players.3)  Support:  Fodder opponents have a craptastic attack bonus.  But this can be improved on easily.  Bless and Prayer work for the clerics.  A Bard can do some pretty nice things too to kick up attack and damage.  From the PHB 2, a Dragon Shaman's Aura's can also enhance to hit and damage output.4)  Champions:  Disarm, Sunder, and Trip are of great use.  Have the champion disarm, and then have a fodder type pick up the weapon and run off with it.  Taking away a primary weapon will have huge impact on a player even if he does have a backup weapon.  It takes away Weapon Focus, Weapon Finesse, the magical weapon bonus, and weapon specialization benefits, and for some weapons, it negates reach.  Trip turns a +2 flanking bonus into a +6 bonus.  Also, getting up from Prone and drawing a weapon provoke AoO's from all who threaten.  Provoking an AoO when surrounded by 4 or so fodder types is dangerous.5)  Spell choice:  Support casters should go for spells that either cut line of sight / line of effect, or counter the players abilities.  Dispel Magic is king, because fodder are very vulnerable to battle field control types.  A web spell will take out full sized rooms of fodder.  Also, any summon monster spell that can give the players a beast with damage reduction is a huge pain in the ass to deal with.  If the players like the Celestial Bison / Fiendish Ape, then you need to have a plan in mind to deal with that.The other advice given here is good.  Since you are in Dragonlance, the Baaz draconians are great fodder.  The chance to disarm is a danger to the players, and it cuts down on the need for a champion type to do so.  Try to exploit the Glide ability as a sort of 'para trooper' attack to get to the back ranks.END COMMUNICATION</blockquote>

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