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<blockquote data-quote="Olgar Shiverstone" data-source="post: 5762170" data-attributes="member: 5868">The challenge isn't the actual lethality of the weapons in question, but the perceived lethality.&nbsp; There's this Hollywood-induced perception that modern projectile weapons are one-shot-one-kill wonder weapons, which while occasionally true isn't generally the case.&nbsp; But people expect firearms to be significantly more lethal on a single-shot basis, and then get disappointed if you don't play them that way.In one of my prior jobs I was involved with a detailed scientific study of the lethality of modern small caliber firearms (which incidentally led to the development of the new M855A1 rifle round the US Army is now using, but I digress ...).&nbsp; We did a lot of gel block shots in the early part of the study, with a lot of modern ammunition.&nbsp; For fun, some of the guys at the lab pulled out some older weapons ... and we started using .50 musket balls, Minie balls,&nbsp; and older weapons -- even bayonets -- on the gel.Here's what we learned: the older weapons -- knives, bolts/arrows, musket balls -- generally caused equal or greater damage, given a hit, than modern weapons.&nbsp; The reason for the ultimate widespread adoption of firearms is that you can dramatically increase probability of hit, at longer ranges, with significantly less training, with a modern weapon than you can with prior generations.&nbsp; So muskets replaced bows and crossbows, which were in turn replaced by rifled weapons, which increased in range and rate of fire ...It stands to reason -- look at hunting.&nbsp; Hunting a deer with bow or crossbow can be just as effective as with a muzzle loader or .306 rifle, but does take greater skill and occurs typically at much shorter ranges.For game purposes, I'd suggest that you can use the existing mechanics for bows and crossbows, but giving the firearms slightly longer range increments (which IME doesn't really come up much in play anyway).&nbsp; Easy to do and it makes firearms a flavor choice rather than a mechanical one.&nbsp; But frankly by doing this you'll just start arguments at the table with folks who have watched too many movies and may not get anywhere.&nbsp; Best of luck.(Incidentally I'm of the &quot;gunpowder firearms don't fit in my fantasy&quot;, but that's just me.&nbsp; If Gygax didn't have a problem with it -- Murlynd, et al -- who am I to judge? There's a long history of guns in D&amp;D.)</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Olgar Shiverstone, post: 5762170, member: 5868"] The challenge isn't the actual lethality of the weapons in question, but the [i]perceived[/i] lethality. There's this Hollywood-induced perception that modern projectile weapons are one-shot-one-kill wonder weapons, which while occasionally true isn't generally the case. But people expect firearms to be significantly more lethal on a single-shot basis, and then get disappointed if you don't play them that way. In one of my prior jobs I was involved with a detailed scientific study of the lethality of modern small caliber firearms (which incidentally led to the development of the new M855A1 rifle round the US Army is now using, but I digress ...). We did a lot of gel block shots in the early part of the study, with a lot of modern ammunition. For fun, some of the guys at the lab pulled out some older weapons ... and we started using .50 musket balls, Minie balls, and older weapons -- even bayonets -- on the gel. Here's what we learned: the older weapons -- knives, bolts/arrows, musket balls -- generally caused equal or greater damage, given a hit, than modern weapons. The reason for the ultimate widespread adoption of firearms is that you can dramatically increase probability of hit, at longer ranges, with significantly less training, with a modern weapon than you can with prior generations. So muskets replaced bows and crossbows, which were in turn replaced by rifled weapons, which increased in range and rate of fire ... It stands to reason -- look at hunting. Hunting a deer with bow or crossbow can be just as effective as with a muzzle loader or .306 rifle, but does take greater skill and occurs typically at much shorter ranges. For game purposes, I'd suggest that you can use the existing mechanics for bows and crossbows, but giving the firearms slightly longer range increments (which IME doesn't really come up much in play anyway). Easy to do and it makes firearms a flavor choice rather than a mechanical one. But frankly by doing this you'll just start arguments at the table with folks who have watched too many movies and may not get anywhere. Best of luck. (Incidentally I'm of the "gunpowder firearms don't fit in my fantasy", but that's just me. If Gygax didn't have a problem with it -- Murlynd, et al -- who am I to judge? There's a long history of guns in D&D.) [/QUOTE]

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