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Message: <blockquote data-quote="AeroDm" data-source="post: 1302514" data-attributes="member: 13650">I think this thread is really interesting because to a large extent it paralells many of the turmoils I've seen in my game.  We toyed with vita/wounds because the entire wounds section acts as a buffer for things like surrender, flee, et al exist, but we found it to be lacking.I find that players will only employ these options if they want to.  No matter how easy you make it, it is still probably going to be harder than killing the enemy, and then they get the 'reward' of talking to it.  The type of players that won't take enemies are often, at least ime, the same that don't want to talk to it.  Make talking beneficial.  Make the enemies realistic; if they are disarmed and surrounded while their companions are all dead, why would they fight?  If the NPCs are this stupid, the PCs will be as well.Lastly, I guess I don't really see where the problem exists with the current rules.  Nets are okay, but the combat options are much better, especially in 3.5.  It is easy to grapple, disarm, and trip with the improved feats, and any NPC should surrender when clearly outmatched, outnumbered and disadvantaged.  Likewise, the -4 for subdual isn't really all that bad.  The general rule of thumb I've seen is that the best attacked should need to roll a 10-12 to hit the AC, which means they now need a 14-16.  In a party of 4, it should take more than a round or two to score the one-subdual his necessary to ensure unconsciousness.  Afterall, you can beat them to 1 hp and if they have 2 subdual they are out.  Only one of many hits need to be at the -4 penalty.</blockquote>

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