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Making Modules Easier to Use
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<blockquote data-quote="kaomera" data-source="post: 3644194" data-attributes="member: 38357"><p>So, I went and bought this “mini-adventure”, and I figured since you where asking I ought to go ahead and give you some feedback. My considerations in making the purchase where three-fold: 1) the name of the product had piqued my interest, especially since I have been mulling over some ideas for undead-themed adventures myself recently; 2) I've been messing around with encounter formats myself, although really only the format of stat-blocks; and 3) the price was right (I'm a real sucker for small-dollar impulse buys).</p><p></p><p>Let me start out by saying that I don't run adventures straight from the book. If there's anything I'd like to see that I think would just absolutely enhance the quality of published adventures in play, it would be somehow designing them to produce a healthy electrical shock when a DM tried to run them unprepared. This is one of the reasons I really like pdfs, I can copy and paste text and reformat them to meet my own personal needs. For example, I want a quick-reference description of each encounter area (ie: boxed text), but I don't always agree 100% with the text as provided. Also, putting this onto 3x5 cards makes using it in play much easier for me. I also want any NPCs (including monsters) written up on cards, as well as traps or anything else that will require significant rules reference in play. (Having cards like this in the pdf could certainly be nice, but I am really very picky about the format of these, so I'm likely better off doing it myself anyway.)</p><p></p><p>However, if there's one issue I have with the adventure, it's the very “spot-rule”-ish effect that takes two pages to fully describe, covers much of the dungeon (including several encounter areas ~ and the area it effects is not marked off on the map! =[ ), and does not seem to me to serve any real purpose... Never mind the inconsistency that objects described in the dungeon have apparently somehow escaped it's effects... Obviously you put a bit of effort into this, but I just don't really care for it.</p><p></p><p>Some general notes about this adventure: First of all I'm fairly dubious about the recommended levels, and the CR of the creatures. Some of the abilities of these creatures can dish out a lot of damage for a third-level party to deal with, mostly because they will tend to be all of the PCs every round. While I don't think that the party is simply going to be wiped out immediately, there are several encounters that are probably going to be very difficult, and they are probably going to want to pull out and rest after each one. While this is actually easy for the PCs to do, it's been my experience that the players aren't going to be too keen on it... There is also the matter of treasure, as there is one item (or pair of items, really) that has a listed value much higher than he PCs should really be seeing at this level, and another that has no listed value, but which is fairly obviously up there as well (multiple magical effects, and all). I was a bit dubious of the new monsters at first (and I still think they may need a higher CR), but mostly because having new monsters in a module that is designed for ease / quickness of play seemed dubious. However, they're actually pretty neat. I can see where they have some potential issues that might cause some DMs to prefer not to use something like that (as listed under “advancement” on p14. for example), but personally I like the idea.</p><p></p><p>Now, to address your specific goals:</p><p></p><p>This is a good idea, at least in theory. In practice I think you might need to give each encounter at least a full page before I'd see any noticeable advantage in games I run. One of the main problems in running a print-format adventure is page-turning... It also helps that you don't have any large pieces of interior art. While I'm a sucker for good art in gaming products, getting it to match up with the text in a way that doesn't hinder the text's use in play can be an issue. (This is one of the main reasons I have gone to using stacks of 3x5 cards for everything...)</p><p></p><p>This is a good idea, but it would be even better if there was a summary of spot checks and the like near the beginning of each encounter write-up.</p><p></p><p>I'm not seeing this. In fact I'm seeing “Break DC 28”, “Search check (DC 18)”, and “Open Lock, DC 25” all on p7. (As a side note, I think that some of the DCs are pretty high for 3rd level characters, but I tend to go through an adventure and “massage” the DCs to fit my particular group of PCs anyway; it seems silly to me to have a useful (let alone required) item or piece of information hiding behind a DC that no-one in the party can make.) This isn't really a big deal, but it might be nice to always use the same format, as well as possibly making the text for the check (type and DC) italic or bold so that it's easier to pick out.</p><p></p><p>Your boxed text is certainly well executed. The only thing I could say could be better is that on p9 one of two doors is described as differing from another, with no indication as to which is which in the box text. Minor thing, as it's mentioned shortly thereafter, but simply indicating a compass direction would not have been bad, IMHO.</p><p></p><p>I think this is a great idea! Some sort of advice on how to actually run an adventure (or specific sections of it) is going to be really helpful, and I'm rather surprised that this isn't done more often.</p><p></p><p>I agree. This is one of the great things about Goodman Game's DCC series, in that they consistently have a section of handouts at the back that you can pass to the players. If they where spread throughout the book there might possibly be slightly less utility, as I really don't like it (as a player or a DM) when a book is held up for the players and the DM has to try and obscure the portions the players shouldn't be seeing... However, personally I photocopy all such info (or if it's a pdf I don't have to), as I don't want to cut up my gaming books. One interesting idea for a pdf product that I'd like to see would be sets of such player handouts, several pages of first-person views of various dungeon rooms that I could then do with whatever I wanted... (It might be hard to get them both generic enough as to be generally useful and still interesting enough to bother, however.)</p><p></p><p>While I wouldn't mind seeing good “battlemaps” included with adventures, it's my understanding that this can be prohibitively expensive. A set of generic dungeon maps in pdf is just costly enough that it's actually a better value for me (personally) to just buy WotC's Dungeon Tiles than to buy them, print them, and mount them. This becomes even more of an issue it you're talking about a very specific map drawn for a specific room that you will probably never actually use for anything else... Now, if you could do something like this cheaply, then I'm, all for it.</p><p></p><p>Something that would go along with that would be an expanded section of rules / statistics / etc. related to such an organization (for example). So, if you wrote the Brotherhood up with a PrC , or a special magic item, or included extra NPCs, especially stuff that isn't specifically used in the adventure, that would be really cool. I guess some might be somehow upset at paying for such extra info, but personally I can always use an extra NPC write-up, even if I don't decide to make the organization a significant part of my campaign.</p><p></p><p>Hope that's helpful and I don't come off as too negative. It's a good product, well worth the money, IMHO. (Just because I might choose not to use a couple of pages of it doesn't ruin it for me, at all.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="kaomera, post: 3644194, member: 38357"] So, I went and bought this “mini-adventure”, and I figured since you where asking I ought to go ahead and give you some feedback. My considerations in making the purchase where three-fold: 1) the name of the product had piqued my interest, especially since I have been mulling over some ideas for undead-themed adventures myself recently; 2) I've been messing around with encounter formats myself, although really only the format of stat-blocks; and 3) the price was right (I'm a real sucker for small-dollar impulse buys). Let me start out by saying that I don't run adventures straight from the book. If there's anything I'd like to see that I think would just absolutely enhance the quality of published adventures in play, it would be somehow designing them to produce a healthy electrical shock when a DM tried to run them unprepared. This is one of the reasons I really like pdfs, I can copy and paste text and reformat them to meet my own personal needs. For example, I want a quick-reference description of each encounter area (ie: boxed text), but I don't always agree 100% with the text as provided. Also, putting this onto 3x5 cards makes using it in play much easier for me. I also want any NPCs (including monsters) written up on cards, as well as traps or anything else that will require significant rules reference in play. (Having cards like this in the pdf could certainly be nice, but I am really very picky about the format of these, so I'm likely better off doing it myself anyway.) However, if there's one issue I have with the adventure, it's the very “spot-rule”-ish effect that takes two pages to fully describe, covers much of the dungeon (including several encounter areas ~ and the area it effects is not marked off on the map! =[ ), and does not seem to me to serve any real purpose... Never mind the inconsistency that objects described in the dungeon have apparently somehow escaped it's effects... Obviously you put a bit of effort into this, but I just don't really care for it. Some general notes about this adventure: First of all I'm fairly dubious about the recommended levels, and the CR of the creatures. Some of the abilities of these creatures can dish out a lot of damage for a third-level party to deal with, mostly because they will tend to be all of the PCs every round. While I don't think that the party is simply going to be wiped out immediately, there are several encounters that are probably going to be very difficult, and they are probably going to want to pull out and rest after each one. While this is actually easy for the PCs to do, it's been my experience that the players aren't going to be too keen on it... There is also the matter of treasure, as there is one item (or pair of items, really) that has a listed value much higher than he PCs should really be seeing at this level, and another that has no listed value, but which is fairly obviously up there as well (multiple magical effects, and all). I was a bit dubious of the new monsters at first (and I still think they may need a higher CR), but mostly because having new monsters in a module that is designed for ease / quickness of play seemed dubious. However, they're actually pretty neat. I can see where they have some potential issues that might cause some DMs to prefer not to use something like that (as listed under “advancement” on p14. for example), but personally I like the idea. Now, to address your specific goals: This is a good idea, at least in theory. In practice I think you might need to give each encounter at least a full page before I'd see any noticeable advantage in games I run. One of the main problems in running a print-format adventure is page-turning... It also helps that you don't have any large pieces of interior art. While I'm a sucker for good art in gaming products, getting it to match up with the text in a way that doesn't hinder the text's use in play can be an issue. (This is one of the main reasons I have gone to using stacks of 3x5 cards for everything...) This is a good idea, but it would be even better if there was a summary of spot checks and the like near the beginning of each encounter write-up. I'm not seeing this. In fact I'm seeing “Break DC 28”, “Search check (DC 18)”, and “Open Lock, DC 25” all on p7. (As a side note, I think that some of the DCs are pretty high for 3rd level characters, but I tend to go through an adventure and “massage” the DCs to fit my particular group of PCs anyway; it seems silly to me to have a useful (let alone required) item or piece of information hiding behind a DC that no-one in the party can make.) This isn't really a big deal, but it might be nice to always use the same format, as well as possibly making the text for the check (type and DC) italic or bold so that it's easier to pick out. Your boxed text is certainly well executed. The only thing I could say could be better is that on p9 one of two doors is described as differing from another, with no indication as to which is which in the box text. Minor thing, as it's mentioned shortly thereafter, but simply indicating a compass direction would not have been bad, IMHO. I think this is a great idea! Some sort of advice on how to actually run an adventure (or specific sections of it) is going to be really helpful, and I'm rather surprised that this isn't done more often. I agree. This is one of the great things about Goodman Game's DCC series, in that they consistently have a section of handouts at the back that you can pass to the players. If they where spread throughout the book there might possibly be slightly less utility, as I really don't like it (as a player or a DM) when a book is held up for the players and the DM has to try and obscure the portions the players shouldn't be seeing... However, personally I photocopy all such info (or if it's a pdf I don't have to), as I don't want to cut up my gaming books. One interesting idea for a pdf product that I'd like to see would be sets of such player handouts, several pages of first-person views of various dungeon rooms that I could then do with whatever I wanted... (It might be hard to get them both generic enough as to be generally useful and still interesting enough to bother, however.) While I wouldn't mind seeing good “battlemaps” included with adventures, it's my understanding that this can be prohibitively expensive. A set of generic dungeon maps in pdf is just costly enough that it's actually a better value for me (personally) to just buy WotC's Dungeon Tiles than to buy them, print them, and mount them. This becomes even more of an issue it you're talking about a very specific map drawn for a specific room that you will probably never actually use for anything else... Now, if you could do something like this cheaply, then I'm, all for it. Something that would go along with that would be an expanded section of rules / statistics / etc. related to such an organization (for example). So, if you wrote the Brotherhood up with a PrC , or a special magic item, or included extra NPCs, especially stuff that isn't specifically used in the adventure, that would be really cool. I guess some might be somehow upset at paying for such extra info, but personally I can always use an extra NPC write-up, even if I don't decide to make the organization a significant part of my campaign. Hope that's helpful and I don't come off as too negative. It's a good product, well worth the money, IMHO. (Just because I might choose not to use a couple of pages of it doesn't ruin it for me, at all.) [/QUOTE]
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