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<blockquote data-quote="Edgar Ironpelt" data-source="post: 7611440" data-attributes="member: 32075">Yes, I've been in forests before, both the kind where the first limbs of the trees are 15 feet up, and the kind where the limbs are so low as to produce a &quot;heavy underbrush&quot; effect or worse. And a few kinds in-between. My point is that, by the SRD: [HQ]A creature standing in the same square as a tree gains a +2 bonus to Armor Class and a +1 bonus on Reflex saves (these bonuses don’t stack with cover bonuses from other sources). The presence of a tree doesn’t otherwise affect a creature’s fighting space, because it’s assumed that the creature is using the tree to its advantage when it can.[/HQ]and I initially presumed that this bonus is due to being in the same square as the tree's trunk. But if it's not due to being in the same square as the tree's trunk (because that gives way too many trees and therefore must be a wrong understanding), then what is this bonus due to? If a tree's limbs and branches are low enough to provide cover, then I can't imagine them not also hindering movement. And if the tree's limbs are high enough to allow free movement under the tree's canopy, then how can they provide those cover bonuses? Similarly with &quot;massive trees&quot; If an impassable &quot;massive tree&quot; square is not the trunk of a tree with a 2+ ft diameter, then just what is it? Because making it the trunk of a tree makes the numbers come out wrong. Therefore (by your premise) the people who wrote the rule must have had a different understanding. But what was that understanding?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Edgar Ironpelt, post: 7611440, member: 32075"] Yes, I've been in forests before, both the kind where the first limbs of the trees are 15 feet up, and the kind where the limbs are so low as to produce a "heavy underbrush" effect or worse. And a few kinds in-between. My point is that, by the SRD: [HQ]A creature standing in the same square as a tree gains a +2 bonus to Armor Class and a +1 bonus on Reflex saves (these bonuses don’t stack with cover bonuses from other sources). The presence of a tree doesn’t otherwise affect a creature’s fighting space, because it’s assumed that the creature is using the tree to its advantage when it can.[/HQ] and I initially presumed that this bonus is due to being in the same square as the tree's trunk. But if it's not due to being in the same square as the tree's trunk (because that gives way too many trees and therefore must be a wrong understanding), then what [I]is[/I] this bonus due to? If a tree's limbs and branches are low enough to provide cover, then I can't imagine them not also hindering movement. And if the tree's limbs are high enough to allow free movement under the tree's canopy, then how can they provide those cover bonuses? Similarly with "massive trees" If an impassable "massive tree" square is not the trunk of a tree with a 2+ ft diameter, then just what is it? Because making it the trunk of a tree makes the numbers come out wrong. Therefore (by your premise) the people who wrote the rule must have had a different understanding. But what was that understanding? [/QUOTE]

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