Making Spycraft chases sizzle

[Pielorinho]

I'm getting ready to play in a Spycraft game that Spider is running, and I'm very excited by it. However, we ran through a trial chase last night to familiarize ourselves with the rules, and they seemed a little, well, clunky, to say the least.

Here's how it looks to us:
Ignoring, for a moment, the speed, each driver looks at eight possible maneuvers (some of which don't make logical sense to us, but no matter), discards the ones that are impossible due to distance, and chooses one that they like. The GM cross-references the two choices on a chart to find out what modifiers each driver gets based on the other driver's choice. Each driver rolls a D20, adding her drive skill and vehicle handling and cross-referenced modifier. The results are compared, and often the losing result is subtracted from the winning result, and sometimes a multiplier is applied to the resulting number, and then results are calculated.

Geez! This is worse than THAC0!

There are also some weird patterns that arise. Apparently, if I chase you really hard (redlining maneuver) and you just try to escape normally (pulling away maneuver), you're likelier to win the opposed check. Huh?

Also, low level agents are both far likelier to die in crashes, AND far likelier to get in crashes. This makes chases a very bad idea at low levels, but not much of an issue at high levels--not an ideal curve.

My question is, you folks who have run Spycraft: how do you simplify or modify the rules so that they remain fun and don't require an advanced degree in trigonometry? Especially if you're around, Piratecat, we both had tremendous fun in the chase you ran, but neither of us could remember how that worked ruleswise.

Daniel

 

[Pielorinho]

Okay, it's been two days since I posted this, and not a single response. Where's my instant gratification that the Internet promised me?

But so that this bump won't be entirely self-serving, I'll add some information: I've sunk about eight hours so far into designing an Access database for handling chases. So far, the database contains about a dozen vehicle templates (motorcycles, and all the cars and trucks). In order to use the system, you have to do the following things:
* Create a specific predator and prey vehicle. You can create a specific vehicle either directly from the templates (using drop-down menus), or you can draw up a template and screw around with it, increasing or decreasing any of its basic stats.
* Create specific predator and prey handlers. For most occasions, this'll consist of entering a name and a total drive skill; however, you can also enter pilot, boating, and balance skills for those different kinds of chases.
* Enter the name of the chase, the starting terrain, the starting lengths, and the starting speed. I may try to get the database to calculate the starting speed.

Once you've gotten all that in (note that most of this stuff can be put in before the session begins by Control), using it is braindead simple. Simply choose a maneuver for the predator and the prey; these maneuvers are limited by the vehicle lengths, such that "cut off," for example, doesn't appear on the list if you're more than zero lengths behind your prey. And enter in any miscellaneous modifiers for predator and prey -- for example, if a daredevil driver took a half-action in the last combat round, put a -2 in the predator's misc. mod. field. Finally, roll a D20 for predator and for prey (I am NOT going to automate dice rolls: that's sacrilege!) and enter the amounts in the appropriate fields.

Then click the "Resolve" button. Several things happen when this button is clicked:
* The predator or prey get an appropriate bonus for the current terrain.
* The predator gets a bonus or penalty based on which maneuvers the two parties chose (it's a lot easier to apply a bonus or a penalty to the predator than to apply it to either predator or prey, and give functionally identical results). This is according to the chart on page 188.
* A final score is calculated for each chase participant and displayed.
* The scores are compared to one another and the winning maneuver is displayed.
* The difference between the predator and prey is displayed (a negative number if the prey wins).
* The length is increased or decreased by the appropriate amount.
* The speed is temporarily increased or decreased by the appropriate amount (note that according to the errata, all speed changes go away at the end of each round).
* A narrative describes the action and tells Control of any additional effects that aren't integrated in the database.

For example, Gepetto, driving a Coor's Truck, is chasing Frankie, who is driving Bob's Hog. Gepetto is 28 lengths behind Frankie and chooses to Gun It, while Frankie chooses to Barnstorm through a nearby cornfield in hopes of ending the chase. The GM enters these two maneuvers, rolls a D20 for each participant and enters the results, and clicks the "resolve" button.

The database compares the two maneuvers, granting a -6 on Gepetto's Gun It (normally a +6 on Frankie's maneuver, but see above). Gepetto gets a +2 bonus for having the faster vehicle in an open terrain chase. Frankie ends up with a total result of 25 on his check, whereas Gepetto gets an 18.

The "Victory Maneuver" field displays "Barnstorm". The "Victory Difference" field displays "-7." The "Round Outcome" field displays:

Bob's Hog blasts through the cluttered area, escaping from Coors Truck! However, Bob's Hog takes 1 points of damage from the maneuver.

Note that this is one point because Frankie is a daredevil and the hog has a ahrdness of 2; total damage = 10-hardness+victory difference, or 10-2-7. If he'd rolled one point higher on his check, it'd read,

Bob's Hog blasts through the cluttered area, escaping from Coors Truck! That daredevil, Frankie pulls the maneuver off without a scratch!

The appropriate amount would then be subtracted from Bob's Hog's wound points.

It needs a fair amount of debugging right now, but if I can get this polished, would folks be interested in it? Also, are there any copyright concerns with something like this?

Daniel

 

[Nareau]

It needs a fair amount of debugging right now, but if I can get this polished, would folks be interested in it? Also, are there any copyright concerns with something like this?

Daniel

Hey, I'd be interested!

This little app is what I've been playing with. It might be worth checking out, maybe get some design ideas. From a cursory look, it appears that program doesn't have the ability to keep a database of vehicles or drivers; a major flaw, in my book.

Spider

 

[Tellerve]

huh, i'm surprised more haven't popped up to talk about this as I had heard that spycraft had great chase mechanics. *shrugs* I don't have the book myself, and haven't ever read the section so I really can't comment, sorry. But I may be starting to get into a modern game up here and the dm might just have spycraft, as he has a goodly number of books it seems from talking with him. I'll see what he has, and what his thoughts are on the subject.

g'luck with your spycraft game spider.

Tellerve

 

[Pielorinho]

Hi, David, good to hear from you! Sorry I took so long to reply -- I've been working on the database, and was hoping to have it in a semifinal form before I posted again, so I could upload it. Whenever I think I'm done, however, I realize two more things that need to go in--for example, I want to automate the crash checks caused by damage, and I want to add in the calculations for critical successes and failures.

As an aside, now that we've done more than a test chase, the rules are looking better to us, for the following reasons:
-Familiarity with the chase rules (gained, for example, by trying to design a database to incorporate them ) does make them run faster.
-We were misreading the chart that cross-referenced predator/prey maneuvers, mixing up the predator penalties and prey penalties; when read correctly, they make a lot more sense.
-Crashes still look deadly, but it turns out that if you do lower-level chases at slower speeds, they're not as bad as I'd first feared. Last night, for example, our jeep was pursued by ATV-riding terrorists through the sand dunes of the Egyptian desert; even crashing at 50MPH is pretty survivable for 2nd-level characters.

A couple more issues have come up:
1) Should hardness subtract from the damage a passenger/driver takes when a vehicle crashes? I'm tempted to say yes: a guy in a semi who crashes at 50 MPH is probably going to take less damage than a guy on a motorcycle who makes the same crash.
2) Should maneuvers like Ram and Cut Off be limited by size? I have a hard time imagining a Hyundai successfully ramming a Coors Truck, and I have a hard time imagining a motorcyle successfully cutting that truck off. I'm thinking about saying that, as a rule of thumb, you can't ram a vehicle a size category larger than your own, and you can't cut off a vehicle two size categories larger than your own.

I'll still be working on the database; anyone interested in seeing it?
Daniel

 

[Henry]

Daniel, I'd definitely be interested in seeing it; it helps to take the burden off so that you can spend more time describing it than running it. Also, I'm a sucker for gaming software, anyway.

You're right - the more you run it, the faster it gets, same as with D&D combat. I love the system because many systems (d20 Modern included) plot vehicle chases positionally, and you have to have a LOT of room to deal with them. By having the pursuants relative to one another, it really takes off. The few times I've run Modern car chases, I've had to improvise, and it left people out in the cold.

 

[Greatwyrm]

I ran a fairly long Spycraft campaign and we were pretty happy with the chase rules as they were. I didn't use the expanded rules in the Wheelman book, just the basic chase rules. It does feel a little confusing at first, but once you've done a couple, they aren't bad.

As far as chases being dangerous for low level characters, why shouldn't they be? If you get a couple of cars dogding back and forth on city streets, with the occupants shooting at each other, it's probably just a matter of time until somebody gets wrapped around a telephone pole. At higher levels, characters don't crash as much, being better drivers.

 

[beverson]

I'll still be working on the database; anyone interested in seeing it?
Daniel

I would like to see it...

 

[ledded]

I'd *love* to see that also... I'm always up for gaming software that can make my life a little easier.

 

[Pielorinho]

Sorry--I started a new thread with the database, so that folks would find it easier. Guess I shoulda linked from this one, eh?

Let me know what you think of it.
Daniel