Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Making the Thief Talk
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Jack7" data-source="post: 4799900" data-attributes="member: 54707"><p>Well Rech, you need to recast the situation so that it is to the advantage of the thief from both ends of the equation. You can do that by <em>"planting a counter-situation."</em> That is a common aspect of undercover and anti-insurgent (counter-insurgency) work, and of turning informants.</p><p></p><p><strong><span style="color: Red">Being an informant is dangerous work.</span></strong> You have to always consider at least two aspects of the operation simultaneously from the point of view of the informant. (The thief is your informant in this situation. <strong>You want him to view himself as your informant, not as a stooge or stoolie.</strong> Meaning he has to be <em><strong>"put to work,"</strong></em> not <em>"fished for goods."</em>)</p><p></p><p><strong>1. The first factor to consider is security.</strong> If the security risks are too high then no matter what the circumstances you cannot establish even a temporary poison of mutual advantage from the point of view of your informant. </p><p></p><p><strong>2. The second factor to consider is profit advantage.</strong> Profit advantage means, <em>"what will the informant gain as a condition of cooperation,"</em> and more importantly how on-going will the profit be? Will it be immediate and short term gain (and if so that is a poor counterweight to a real security threat) or will it be long term and reliable? (I stress the reliable aspect.)</p><p></p><p></p><p>Those things being the case is any situation involving developing an on-going relationship with an informant I'll make the following suggestions.</p><p></p><p>Establish an on-going and reliable <em><strong>"relationship"</strong></em> with your informant. Let him know that they can rely upon you (I say you for ease of expression, I mean your players) to hide him or assist with security threat if he brings such a threat upon himself either intentionally (as a result of his relationship with you) or accidentally. Offer to "cover him" form threats, though you must also let him know that your protection is not open-ended, but arises a result of your business relationship. You won't cover his "personal adventures and personal grudges." But stress the reliability of the security coverage.</p><p></p><p>Establish an on-going profit relationship. Ask for help which will lead to immediate mutual reward but also long-term mutual benefit. That is let him know this is not a "one-up deal" but instead offers possibilities for on-going work. Chances are he established his relationship with the other party as a matter of profit, but was led to believe this would lead to on-going work. In addition if he truly is scared of his previous employer, rather than feels loyalty to them, then there is probably already someone within that organization or group with whom he is at tension, or with whom he feels friction or would like to oust. </p><p></p><p>That being the case let him know that you will help him remove this obstacle to his advancement while simultaneously assisting him with framing the "wart" for anything he discloses. You actually kill three birds with this stone. You plant suspicion on your wart (your interorganizational target or mark), you make your informant seem more reliable and trustworthy and probably more worthy of advancement to the people in whom you "plant him," and you give your informant a chance to reap advantage from two directions at once. More work, profit, and advantage can fall to him from the other organization, while at the same time he can establish an on-going profit relationship with you. Tell him he can keep what he skims from the other guys while <em>"shaving his wart"</em> and by making it look like the wart is at fault (thereby making himself more secure in the other organization, while simultaneously "upping his rep" to both groups - doesn't matter that you do and should remain suspicious of him, it matters that he thinks both groups are trusting him) he actually improves his standing in the group he is "doubling." Then you also pay him and asset him in other ways so that he can see the advantage of an on-going relationship with you. He is secure while playing the double and the part of the mole (as much as possible anyways), and has greatly increased his profit advantage. there are a few other factors to consider (such as third party advantage, maybe he has family or fiends he wants protected) but this is just a game so you needn't worry about them unless they occur to you, or someone else brings them up.</p><p></p><p><em>If done properly then you can turn almost anybody in a similar situation. </em></p><p></p><p>There are two dangers to consider in this scenario of course. 1) your party is being played as the actual doubles, meaning he is a mole who is digging through their field rather than the other way around, and 2) your party will have to be "professional" or they will risk the life of their informant, and their own lives through stupid and amateurish actions that do not contribute to security and success, but actually lessen chances for success.</p><p></p><p><em><strong>Then again all such actions have an inherent risk of such dangers.</strong></em></p><p></p><p>The advantages are that you will open up venues for additional sub-plots, it will be good "professional experience" for your players, they will perhaps gain a valuable on-going, perhaps reliable informant, maybe even an ally for future work, and most importantly you can really role play it and really test the capabilities of your players instead of just relying upon "dumb" dice rolls to resolve dangerous and difficult situations. </p><p></p><p>If your players are inexperienced with undercover and informant operations then "plant" another NPC into the situation, as a consultant, expert (former law enforcement, military, or even experienced informant/criminal will work), or sage, to explain to them how it is done, or to give them options to pursue. Good luck.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jack7, post: 4799900, member: 54707"] Well Rech, you need to recast the situation so that it is to the advantage of the thief from both ends of the equation. You can do that by [I]"planting a counter-situation."[/I] That is a common aspect of undercover and anti-insurgent (counter-insurgency) work, and of turning informants. [B][COLOR="Red"]Being an informant is dangerous work.[/COLOR][/B] You have to always consider at least two aspects of the operation simultaneously from the point of view of the informant. (The thief is your informant in this situation. [B]You want him to view himself as your informant, not as a stooge or stoolie.[/B] Meaning he has to be [I][B]"put to work,"[/B][/I] not [I]"fished for goods."[/I]) [B]1. The first factor to consider is security.[/B] If the security risks are too high then no matter what the circumstances you cannot establish even a temporary poison of mutual advantage from the point of view of your informant. [B]2. The second factor to consider is profit advantage.[/B] Profit advantage means, [I]"what will the informant gain as a condition of cooperation,"[/I] and more importantly how on-going will the profit be? Will it be immediate and short term gain (and if so that is a poor counterweight to a real security threat) or will it be long term and reliable? (I stress the reliable aspect.) Those things being the case is any situation involving developing an on-going relationship with an informant I'll make the following suggestions. Establish an on-going and reliable [I][B]"relationship"[/B][/I] with your informant. Let him know that they can rely upon you (I say you for ease of expression, I mean your players) to hide him or assist with security threat if he brings such a threat upon himself either intentionally (as a result of his relationship with you) or accidentally. Offer to "cover him" form threats, though you must also let him know that your protection is not open-ended, but arises a result of your business relationship. You won't cover his "personal adventures and personal grudges." But stress the reliability of the security coverage. Establish an on-going profit relationship. Ask for help which will lead to immediate mutual reward but also long-term mutual benefit. That is let him know this is not a "one-up deal" but instead offers possibilities for on-going work. Chances are he established his relationship with the other party as a matter of profit, but was led to believe this would lead to on-going work. In addition if he truly is scared of his previous employer, rather than feels loyalty to them, then there is probably already someone within that organization or group with whom he is at tension, or with whom he feels friction or would like to oust. That being the case let him know that you will help him remove this obstacle to his advancement while simultaneously assisting him with framing the "wart" for anything he discloses. You actually kill three birds with this stone. You plant suspicion on your wart (your interorganizational target or mark), you make your informant seem more reliable and trustworthy and probably more worthy of advancement to the people in whom you "plant him," and you give your informant a chance to reap advantage from two directions at once. More work, profit, and advantage can fall to him from the other organization, while at the same time he can establish an on-going profit relationship with you. Tell him he can keep what he skims from the other guys while [I]"shaving his wart"[/I] and by making it look like the wart is at fault (thereby making himself more secure in the other organization, while simultaneously "upping his rep" to both groups - doesn't matter that you do and should remain suspicious of him, it matters that he thinks both groups are trusting him) he actually improves his standing in the group he is "doubling." Then you also pay him and asset him in other ways so that he can see the advantage of an on-going relationship with you. He is secure while playing the double and the part of the mole (as much as possible anyways), and has greatly increased his profit advantage. there are a few other factors to consider (such as third party advantage, maybe he has family or fiends he wants protected) but this is just a game so you needn't worry about them unless they occur to you, or someone else brings them up. [I]If done properly then you can turn almost anybody in a similar situation. [/I] There are two dangers to consider in this scenario of course. 1) your party is being played as the actual doubles, meaning he is a mole who is digging through their field rather than the other way around, and 2) your party will have to be "professional" or they will risk the life of their informant, and their own lives through stupid and amateurish actions that do not contribute to security and success, but actually lessen chances for success. [I][B]Then again all such actions have an inherent risk of such dangers.[/B][/I] The advantages are that you will open up venues for additional sub-plots, it will be good "professional experience" for your players, they will perhaps gain a valuable on-going, perhaps reliable informant, maybe even an ally for future work, and most importantly you can really role play it and really test the capabilities of your players instead of just relying upon "dumb" dice rolls to resolve dangerous and difficult situations. If your players are inexperienced with undercover and informant operations then "plant" another NPC into the situation, as a consultant, expert (former law enforcement, military, or even experienced informant/criminal will work), or sage, to explain to them how it is done, or to give them options to pursue. Good luck. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
Making the Thief Talk
Top