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<blockquote data-quote="Guilt Puppy" data-source="post: 752317" data-attributes="member: 6521"><p>Out of curiosity: What makes you think that his case is more removed from the social mainstream, and not the other way around? Is this relying on the assumption that "normal men" are simpler than "normal women," or merely a suggestion that his male players were part of social groups with more feminine identities, or something along those lines?</p><p></p><p>(In either case, the notion of a "social mainstream" is highly illusory, and differs depending on which social minority has constructed its image.)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>First: You've referenced the distinction between gender and sex, so I'm wondering which you're referring to there. Are masculine people simpler than feminine people, or are people with ding-dongs simpler than people with hoo-hoos? If the former, then what is your position on highly feminine males (or even cross-dressers!) or highly masculine females (or even cross-dressers!) playing female characters? Also, what about people who don't have a well-established gender identity? Is this level too microscopic for that generalization to apply? If so, why do you use it to justify restrictions on such the equally microscopic level of character selection?</p><p></p><p>(Note that I have no disagreement with your basic premise: You've had bad experiences with men trying to play women, so you don't allow it. I have no intention of changing how you run things, I just find some flaws in the less subjective arguments you're presenting in favor of that method.)</p><p></p><p>Second: You make the point that it's not hard for a complex person to play a simpler person, but that it's hard to do things the other way around. Referencing Kahuna's point, in a way, would you agree that the motivations of fictional characters are inherently more simple than those of real people, such as players? If so, would you still say that the average fictional woman's personality is more complex than that of the average real man?</p><p></p><p>Also, not in response to that point specifically, but the "I'm not an elf but I can play one" issue has come up repeatedly, to the response that there is no living example so it can't be played "wrong" in the same way. What I'm wondering is, what about other examples where there are analagous groups between fiction and real-life? For instance, if Half-Orcs are treated like second-class citizens in your campaign, would you allow a white person to play them? Alternately, would you allow a black person who grew up in a prejudiced area to play a white person? (I don't want to bait you into saying anything offensive -- although you have done it already <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> -- so let's assume that, through some eldritch magic, racial sensitivities are not an issue in this hypothetical case. And if you don't feel this example warrants its own response, feel free to ignore it, because I don't want to see this discussion get misdirected.)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Guilt Puppy, post: 752317, member: 6521"] Out of curiosity: What makes you think that his case is more removed from the social mainstream, and not the other way around? Is this relying on the assumption that "normal men" are simpler than "normal women," or merely a suggestion that his male players were part of social groups with more feminine identities, or something along those lines? (In either case, the notion of a "social mainstream" is highly illusory, and differs depending on which social minority has constructed its image.) First: You've referenced the distinction between gender and sex, so I'm wondering which you're referring to there. Are masculine people simpler than feminine people, or are people with ding-dongs simpler than people with hoo-hoos? If the former, then what is your position on highly feminine males (or even cross-dressers!) or highly masculine females (or even cross-dressers!) playing female characters? Also, what about people who don't have a well-established gender identity? Is this level too microscopic for that generalization to apply? If so, why do you use it to justify restrictions on such the equally microscopic level of character selection? (Note that I have no disagreement with your basic premise: You've had bad experiences with men trying to play women, so you don't allow it. I have no intention of changing how you run things, I just find some flaws in the less subjective arguments you're presenting in favor of that method.) Second: You make the point that it's not hard for a complex person to play a simpler person, but that it's hard to do things the other way around. Referencing Kahuna's point, in a way, would you agree that the motivations of fictional characters are inherently more simple than those of real people, such as players? If so, would you still say that the average fictional woman's personality is more complex than that of the average real man? Also, not in response to that point specifically, but the "I'm not an elf but I can play one" issue has come up repeatedly, to the response that there is no living example so it can't be played "wrong" in the same way. What I'm wondering is, what about other examples where there are analagous groups between fiction and real-life? For instance, if Half-Orcs are treated like second-class citizens in your campaign, would you allow a white person to play them? Alternately, would you allow a black person who grew up in a prejudiced area to play a white person? (I don't want to bait you into saying anything offensive -- although you have done it already :) -- so let's assume that, through some eldritch magic, racial sensitivities are not an issue in this hypothetical case. And if you don't feel this example warrants its own response, feel free to ignore it, because I don't want to see this discussion get misdirected.) [/QUOTE]
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