[Malladin's Gate] A product idea question

[malladin]

firstly, I'm not sure which board this should be on. It is a question about a product, and I would like feedback from other publishers, so I figured this is the best place.

We've been planning the release of a our fantasy setting for a while now. With the release of D20 Modern, an idea hascome to us (and has been mentioned on other boards here a few times) that a fantasy version of D20 Modern might make a more dark/low fantasy option that the high fantasy that D&D supplies.

Given that our setting is very much a dark world, the idea was floated to use this as a vehicle for this type of system.

We were wondering whether people in general, including other publishers and reviewers as well as the ordinary game-buying public, felt that this was an idea of merit or that D&D should be used as the base for fantasy and D20M for modern games only???

The game system that we have been working on is actually somewhat a mixture between the two, using largely the D&D skills, etc, but having a character class system similar to that in D20M.

So what do you think? Good idea or bad idea... and why, of course.


Thanks in advance,

Ben, Malladin's Gate

 

[Blacksad]

As someone from the game buying public:

I haven't bought d20 Modern, and I won't buy a fantasy setting that would require it.

Unless you use a really large chunk of the rules from d20 Modern, I think that it would be easier to require the PHB or if you can reprint a large chunk of rules you can require "a d20 system Core Rulebook from WotC".

This might seem opposed from what I've said above, but the D&D PHB can be used for modern/futur d20 game (Judge Dredd, Babylon 5), and their is no inherent problem to require d20 Modern for a fantasy setting, just that you'll restrict yourself to people who have d20 Modern and already have D&D (I would be surprised if anyone who wants to play fantasy, and has d20 Modern, didn't have the D&D PHB, while the reverse is false).

 

[Flyspeck23]

It's definitely not a good idea. Try to "tone down" D20 (fantasy) to your needs (if that's possible...).

If you wouldn't want to publish it, then of course it would be a splendid idea. But publishing something nearly nobody will buy is kind of pointless.

 

[HellHound]

I would go ahead with it, but include an appendix (maybe a free download) that contains the core classes from d20 Modern and the major rules diferences (massive dmaage threshold, defence values, action points)

 

[malladin]

I'm not sure I've made myself entirely clear hear.

The game would be pretty much stand alone, in the same way as many other 'complete' games have been (spycraft, judge dread, etc). You will get all the base classes and races you need to play the game. Combat has been largely unaffected, save for a tidy-up of terminology and the massive damage threshold (and I suspect some of this will be integrated into D&D with 3.5). Modern skills are not appropriate, so we'd stick with the ones from D&D - the same pretty much goes for feats. If anything the system will 'require' D&D and give you the additional rules that we've 'absorbed' from D20M.

The thing I'm trying to ask is not whether you would buy a fantasy setting that says 'requires D20 Modern', but whether, when you opened it up and saw fantasy equivalents of the D20M basic classes and a load of what are effectively Advanced classes (low-level entry PrCs), you would think 'this is just D20 Modern for fantasy, I'm not touching it' or whether you would think 'Cool, fantasy, but like D20 Modern'...

Thanks for the comments so far....

Ben, Malladin's Gate

 

[Frilf]

Sounds intriguing, Ben. I'd definitely give it a look. I've got all the D&D stuff and d20 Modern, but I'd prefer the setting to be as self-contained as possible. Since you mention this is your aim, I don't think there would be a problem... Go for it!

 

[Blacksad]

'this is just D20 Modern for fantasy, I'm not touching it' or whether you would think 'Cool, fantasy, but like D20 Modern'...

Depends on the setting

There is a few precedent for a fantasy setting doing an overhaul of classes and rules: Wheel of Time and Sovereign Stone(?).

If it furthers the feel of your setting, considering that the d20 Modern rules are balanced with D&D (on purpose), I say go ahead!

Rules that fit the setting (if it is one that interest me) is a plus, though I wouldn't put a 'rules like d20 Modern' anywhere on the cover, it might scare people on what the intent is.

 

[Mistwell]

I'm not sure I've made myself entirely clear hear.

The game would be pretty much stand alone, in the same way as many other 'complete' games have been (spycraft, judge dread, etc). You will get all the base classes and races you need to play the game. Combat has been largely unaffected, save for a tidy-up of terminology and the massive damage threshold (and I suspect some of this will be integrated into D&D with 3.5). Modern skills are not appropriate, so we'd stick with the ones from D&D - the same pretty much goes for feats. If anything the system will 'require' D&D and give you the additional rules that we've 'absorbed' from D20M.

The thing I'm trying to ask is not whether you would buy a fantasy setting that says 'requires D20 Modern', but whether, when you opened it up and saw fantasy equivalents of the D20M basic classes and a load of what are effectively Advanced classes (low-level entry PrCs), you would think 'this is just D20 Modern for fantasy, I'm not touching it' or whether you would think 'Cool, fantasy, but like D20 Modern'...

Thanks for the comments so far....

Ben, Malladin's Gate

I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

In fact, I think it would INCREASE your sales to tie it to d20Modern rather than D&D. If linked to D&D, it will get lost in the sea of campaign settings that are already out there. No matter how good it is, few would even look at it if for D&D. Most D&D gamers either have their setting already, use a homebrew setting, or are already considering one of the dozens of settings out there. You would be a small fish in a big pond.

But make it for d20 Modern, and you are a big fish in a small pond. There are very few settings currently for d20 Modern, and yet sales of d20 Modern are quite strong. You would shine on the stands of gaming stores as something unique.

I'd say go for it.

 

[malladin]

Thanks for the comments so far guys.

Just one thing to point out: this will be a pdf product (unfortunatley). But if it does well who knows...

I just thought I'd take some notes at this point based on what has been said so far and see if you all agree with me or not.

1. If I say the product requires D20 Modern it will be a turn off. Since this is not my plan I don't see a problem.

2. keeping the product as self contained as possible is probably not just prefferable, but pretty much required.

3. Using D20M-type classes won't essentially be a problem, provided it's done right and carries the flavour of the game.

4. Opinion is divided on whether to directly market it as D20M-like or not. Some people will like it others might be put off by it. My personal view is that there is probably a balance point that can be found so that the marketing schpiel can attract those interested in D20M and not overtly appaul those who don't. Do you think this is possible??

On another slightly related topic, I've been having a think why people buy campaign settings in general and why they might buy this particular one.

Firstly, some people buy a setting because they really like it and want to run games and play in that particualr world (or at least think they might when they pick it up off the shelf).

Secondly, people buy it because it has a bunch of new PrCs, Feats, and other crunchy bits that theycan transfer into their own game.

In the case of this idea, I think there's probably a third reason that people might be interested. I get the impression that there are some people who might be interested in the product to use it as a 'campaign model' product for their own 'dark' fantasy game. In this way you could just ignore the setting and pick up the crunch and add your own setting. I suppose this is similar to the 'Blood and ...' series by RPG Objects. The question is, how much interest do you think there may be in this type of thing? The challenge for us is to pitch our product so that it appeals to this group of people without putting off those in the first two camps.

any more thoughts???

Thanks again,

Ben, Malladin's Gate

 

[Blacksad]

4. Opinion is divided on whether to directly market it as D20M-like or not. Some people will like it others might be put off by it. My personal view is that there is probably a balance point that can be found so that the marketing schpiel can attract those interested in D20M and not overtly appaul those who don't. Do you think this is possible??

A big web-preview of the class chapter?

A slogan: "Using rules from WotC never before seen in a D&D product!" Impossible within the product due to OGL and d20 license, but perhaps in a press-release?

Another Slogan: "Forget those multiclass restriction: all of ours class are meant to be taken with as much multiclass as you would like. Included: the critically aclaimed method of advanced class to flesh up your character as early as 3rd level" ?

The question is, how much interest do you think there may be in this type of thing? The challenge for us is to pitch our product so that it appeals to this group of people without putting off those in the first two camps.

Something like Oriental Adventure (from WotC) or Swashbuckling Adventures (from AEG) ?

Lots of interest! If your setting cover a large array of the things that appear in a dark fantasy setting, it should be possible.

any more thoughts???

What do you mean by 'dark' fantasy?

Fantasy set in the 'dark' age? with no crossbow or firearm, lots of disease and nothing to cure them (or magical disease that require Xp to be cured), with lots of latin and greek citation, chart with technologie available, some way to deal with superstition.

Fantasy with a 'dark' tone? The sun has disapeared or it's light has diminished by day, the countryside is VERY dangerous by night, and people can only live in big walled feodal cities.

Fantasy with 'dark' elves?

'Dark' and Gritty Fantasy? Add the massive damage threshold, ban the evocation and summoning school of magic, done.