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<blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 8005895" data-attributes="member: 177">With respect, I don't think those examples amount to &quot;primary&quot; anything.&nbsp; TSR says, &quot;We built several games on basically the same engine, and then present a way to convert them!&quot;&nbsp; That's not a major design space, that's just what they call &quot;eating your own dog food&quot;.&nbsp; That's less about doing cool weird stuff in D&amp;D, and more trying to drive players to also buy your other games!I also question whether this PMP-hopping wound up to be particularly major in play experience - while I admit we will never know for lack of any way to get data.Let us assume, for the moment, that Gygax thought this would be a major element of play, that people would, in fact, get bored, and this would be called for to keep a campaign feeling fresh, and so thought of it as a &quot;major design space&quot;.&nbsp; I am sorry, but he got it wrong.&nbsp; That setup is based on an assumption - that a DM would have a single campaign/campaign world that would persist for very long times.&nbsp; His world was persistent.&nbsp; And others in his circles.&nbsp; But in the wild, I don't think that's what we saw.What we see in actual play is campaigns that typically last 18 months or less.&nbsp; If the group continued to play, they switched GMs, games, or worlds.&nbsp; I don't need world hopping when the next game will be in a whole new world anyway.&nbsp; What Gygax failed to see was that there was no need for world-hopping to keep things interesting, because the campaign was not particularly long-lasting.I daresay that we could actually look at MotP as an adjustment to the reality.&nbsp; The MPM model wasn't really doing anyone a major service and it wasn't moving a whole lot of product, so they left it behind for things that might actually sell.Plus, I'l be honest, the &quot;fish out of water in another world&quot; was already a cliched trope in the 70s.&nbsp; Mark Twain did it.&nbsp; HG Wells did it.&nbsp; It didn't really present a major untouched &quot;design space&quot;, as it was done to death elsewhere.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Umbran, post: 8005895, member: 177"] With respect, I don't think those examples amount to "primary" anything. TSR says, "We built several games on basically the same engine, and then present a way to convert them!" That's not a major design space, that's just what they call "eating your own dog food". That's less about doing cool weird stuff in D&D, and more trying to drive players to also buy your other games! I also question whether this PMP-hopping wound up to be particularly major in play experience - while I admit we will never know for lack of any way to get data. Let us assume, for the moment, that Gygax thought this would be a major element of play, that people would, in fact, get bored, and this would be called for to keep a campaign feeling fresh, and so thought of it as a "major design space". I am sorry, but he got it wrong. That setup is based on an assumption - that a DM would have a single campaign/campaign world that would persist for very long times. His world was persistent. And others in his circles. But in the wild, I don't think that's what we saw. What we see in actual play is campaigns that typically last 18 months or less. If the group continued to play, they [I]switched[/I] GMs, games, or worlds. I don't need world hopping when the next game will be in a whole new world anyway. What Gygax failed to see was that there was no need for world-hopping to keep things interesting, because the campaign was not particularly long-lasting. I daresay that we could actually look at MotP as an adjustment to the reality. The MPM model wasn't really doing anyone a major service and it wasn't moving a whole lot of product, so they left it behind for things that might actually sell. Plus, I'l be honest, the "fish out of water in another world" was already a cliched trope in the 70s. Mark Twain did it. HG Wells did it. It didn't really present a major untouched "design space", as it was done to death elsewhere. [/QUOTE]

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