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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8936143" data-attributes="member: 6696971">You might want to check this out [USER=6761960]@Tun Kai Poh[/USER] .&nbsp; Fair chance I run this for my Blades group when that game resolves (which should be within 6 weeks I think).&nbsp; Stras has been working on this one for awhile.[URL unfurl=&quot;true&quot;]https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/293145/Into-the-Dark[/URL]Just going to C&amp;P my post from the other thread in here (didn't realize that this was a thread).&nbsp; I'll get a round to responding to you [USER=42582]@pemerton[/USER] and you [USER=6690965]@Pedantic[/USER] in this thread (I'll copy your posts and drop them in here when I do...won't be tonight).[HR][/HR]ON MAP &amp; KEY PLAY BEING &quot;A GUESSING GAME&quot;Just wanted to comment on this. Map &amp; Key play isn't natively &quot;a guessing game&quot; in its skillfully GMed and skillfully played form. If Map &amp; Key play has degenerated into &quot;a guessing game,&quot; one failure state or another has occurred:* GM mapping or keying or scenario design has failed.* The conversation between GM and players has broken down for one reason or another or multiple. There is a fairly likely chance that the GM hasn't subtly + deftly telegraphed sites of conflicts, nature of obstacles or threats or opportunities or NPCs, dynamics of setting/situation/hazards/puzzles. Players may not be uploading the information presented to them correctly for a number of reasons (or they may have developed rote SOPs that don't functionally address the needs of play and fail to adjust).* The resolution mechanics/pressure points/consequences don't have sufficient teeth to create a vital and vigorous decision-space for players.* The GM is manipulating either/or/both the Map &amp; Key in real time or subverted players' inputs in favor of the GM's desired outcomes. This will create a situation where players' mental models for this particular instantiation of play, and often play generally under this particular GM, break down (&quot;a guessing game&quot; ensues) and this cannot be remediated without actual, overt redress by the GM; &quot;yeah, I recognize I subverted the competitive integrity of play and disallowed your authentic contribution to dictate the trajectory of play...I apologize...won't happen again &lt;and then putting in the time to &quot;mend that wound&quot;&gt;.'</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 8936143, member: 6696971"] You might want to check this out [USER=6761960]@Tun Kai Poh[/USER] . Fair chance I run this for my Blades group when that game resolves (which should be within 6 weeks I think). Stras has been working on this one for awhile. [URL unfurl="true"]https://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/293145/Into-the-Dark[/URL] Just going to C&P my post from the other thread in here (didn't realize that this was a thread). I'll get a round to responding to you [USER=42582]@pemerton[/USER] and you [USER=6690965]@Pedantic[/USER] in this thread (I'll copy your posts and drop them in here when I do...won't be tonight). [HR][/HR] [B]ON MAP & KEY PLAY BEING "A GUESSING GAME"[/B] Just wanted to comment on this. Map & Key play isn't natively "a guessing game" in its skillfully GMed and skillfully played form. If Map & Key play has degenerated into "a guessing game," one failure state or another has occurred: * GM mapping or keying or scenario design has failed. * The conversation between GM and players has broken down for one reason or another or multiple. There is a fairly likely chance that the GM hasn't subtly + deftly telegraphed sites of conflicts, nature of obstacles or threats or opportunities or NPCs, dynamics of setting/situation/hazards/puzzles. Players may not be uploading the information presented to them correctly for a number of reasons (or they may have developed rote SOPs that don't functionally address the needs of play and fail to adjust). * The resolution mechanics/pressure points/consequences don't have sufficient teeth to create a vital and vigorous decision-space for players. * The GM is manipulating either/or/both the Map & Key in real time or subverted players' inputs in favor of the GM's desired outcomes. This will create a situation where players' mental models for this particular instantiation of play, and often play generally under this particular GM, break down ("a guessing game" ensues) and this cannot be remediated without actual, overt redress by the GM; "yeah, I recognize I subverted the competitive integrity of play and disallowed your authentic contribution to dictate the trajectory of play...I apologize...won't happen again <and then putting in the time to "mend that wound">.' [/QUOTE]

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