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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 8936193" data-attributes="member: 82106">Yeah, in a pure Gygaxian dungeon crawl for us being 15 or so maybe, it was OK. DMs often learned, usually once you were 3rd or 5th level if was kind of like &quot;OK, lets move on to other matters...&quot; It could get non-functional though if you had a DM who just kept doubling down on this.Well, I was rereading the original D&amp;D rules for this stuff earlier for another post. They don't really distinguish very well between 'looking around' and 'searching'. I think its just contextual and what actual declarations trigger which of the discrete 'find' or 'notice' rules is fairly ambiguous. I think that was one of the objectives of 'Sniff and Listen' being codified was to make it clear, we were triggering ALL of these kinds of things. This combats another tendency, which isn't necessarily a 'Map and Key' thing, which is the old gotcha of &quot;well, you didn't say you were doing THAT!&quot; even when it is obvious that is exactly what, contextually is happening. This is another 'error condition' of Gygaxian play, which is VERY likely with inexperienced/young GMs particularly, but can manifest in subtler forms too. It is kin to the 'lack of sufficient context' one that creates pixel bitching, but is kind of its antithesis.Yeah, it very naturally works for these types of scenarios. TB2 is a very 'exploratory' and 'environmental' game. Like in Blades we rarely do a lot of detailed exploration, or often even really working out any but the most general elements of locations. It has happened that we got a bit more into the environment, like when we were out in the death lands. OTOH when I was breaking out of Ironhook the other day, the descriptions were pretty high level. TB2 would probably include a bit more detail, like the lair of the cannibal people had a pretty detailed layout. It wasn't D&amp;D level maping, but there were some details along the way.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 8936193, member: 82106"] Yeah, in a pure Gygaxian dungeon crawl for us being 15 or so maybe, it was OK. DMs often learned, usually once you were 3rd or 5th level if was kind of like "OK, lets move on to other matters..." It could get non-functional though if you had a DM who just kept doubling down on this. Well, I was rereading the original D&D rules for this stuff earlier for another post. They don't really distinguish very well between 'looking around' and 'searching'. I think its just contextual and what actual declarations trigger which of the discrete 'find' or 'notice' rules is fairly ambiguous. I think that was one of the objectives of 'Sniff and Listen' being codified was to make it clear, we were triggering ALL of these kinds of things. This combats another tendency, which isn't necessarily a 'Map and Key' thing, which is the old gotcha of "well, you didn't say you were doing THAT!" even when it is obvious that is exactly what, contextually is happening. This is another 'error condition' of Gygaxian play, which is VERY likely with inexperienced/young GMs particularly, but can manifest in subtler forms too. It is kin to the 'lack of sufficient context' one that creates pixel bitching, but is kind of its antithesis. Yeah, it very naturally works for these types of scenarios. TB2 is a very 'exploratory' and 'environmental' game. Like in Blades we rarely do a lot of detailed exploration, or often even really working out any but the most general elements of locations. It has happened that we got a bit more into the environment, like when we were out in the death lands. OTOH when I was breaking out of Ironhook the other day, the descriptions were pretty high level. TB2 would probably include a bit more detail, like the lair of the cannibal people had a pretty detailed layout. It wasn't D&D level maping, but there were some details along the way. [/QUOTE]

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