Maps for Keep on the Borderlands?

[CarlZog]

I just bought a copy of the old Basic module, B2: The Keep on the Borderlands, from ebay.
I never owned or played it before, but I'm hoping to use it to introduce a 9-year-old to the game.

Anyway the copy I got came with a cover folder showing the map of the Caves of Chaos on the inside, but there are no maps of the Keep itself or the surrounding area.

Before I complain to the guy on ebay, I wanted to make sure I know what's missing. Was there a second folder of maps in this module or what?

Thanks.

 

[BiggusGeekus]

Before I complain to the guy on ebay, I wanted to make sure I know what's missing. Was there a second folder of maps in this module or what?

There should be an insert between pages 14 and 15.

 

[Insight]

The maps of the keep and the surrounding area are inside the module. I don't have it in front of me, but I'm actually running it right now with a group, so I have looked at it recently.

There's a section about the middle of the module with information about D&D in general, terms, etc., and the two maps are right there - both are full pages as I recall.

The map of the keep has numbers corresponding with the locations listed for the keep. The wilderness map shows the location of the keep, as well as the outdoor locations listed right after the keep locations in the book. The wilderness map is kinda hard to read though.

If you're missing the maps, I might be able to scan them and email them to you. Let me know.

 

[CarlZog]

They must have been torn out of the copy I got. I have nothing in the spread between pages 14 and 15, which is the middle of the book where the staple is.

I just looked up on RPGNow, and the pdfs they're selling of this module are apparently missing the same maps! So I'm stuck.

So yes, Insight, assuming it doesn't violate any file sharing rules, I'd love to have you email those maps:
CarlZog is the name and domain is cox dot net (Pardon my anti-spamming).

Thanks for the info. Now I can at least go back to the ebay guy.

 

[Insight]

They must have been torn out of the copy I got. I have nothing in the spread between pages 14 and 15, which is the middle of the book where the staple is.

I just looked up on RPGNow, and the pdfs they're selling of this module are apparently missing the same maps! So I'm stuck.

So yes, Insight, assuming it doesn't violate any file sharing rules, I'd love to have you email those maps:
CarlZog is the name and domain is cox dot net (Pardon my anti-spamming).

Thanks for the info. Now I can at least go back to the ebay guy.

I don't see any problem with it. I'm not asking you to pay for it, so it's not a copyright violation, and you should have had those maps already, so I don't how anyone would complain.

My opinion on intellectual property and file sharing is this: if it's commercially available, I'll buy it. If it's not, how am I supposed to get it? If someone out there is selling those two maps by themselves and they are legit, buy them. Otherwise, I don't want to hear any whining from anyone.

I'll send them off tonight when I get home. Good luck in your game, Carl, and thanks for bringing some new players into our hobby.

 

[John Morrow]

Anyway the copy I got came with a cover folder showing the map of the Caves of Chaos on the inside, but there are no maps of the Keep itself or the surrounding area.

You are missing the map of the keep, the wilderness, and a pull out containing some character and equipment information. It was a perforated pull-out so it would be easy enough for someone to miss. Frankly, you could probably make up your own. Just draw two boxes with towers in the corner for the Inner and Outer Keep, add a gatehouse, and put some buildings inside that correspond to the locations in the module. If you really want the map of the Keep or need a wilderness map and can't get a hold of the one from the module, you do have a few non-obvious options to get some maps:

1) The novel version of "Keep on the Borderlands" contains a copy of the keep map from the module inside the front of the book. I don't remember if the locations are labelled, though.

2) You could also find a copy of the Keep in The Return to the Keep on the Borderland 25th Aniversary module which not only has a map of the Keep but a more fleshed out local population.

3) You can buy the Hackmaster treatment called Little Keep on the Borderlands which includes an even more fleshed out Keep and local population. In fact, it's the meatiest incarnation of the module, though a bit too tongue-in-cheek in places for me.

4) You can buy the latest edition of Knights of the Dinner Table which includes a map of the Hackmaster version of the Keep (and a 3D rendering of part of it--part two in issue 100) which is close enough, if you don't mind assigning the locations in the module to the buildings in the Hackmaster version of the Keep, which is a bit more detailed and has more buildings.

 

[CarlZog]

Insight, thanks for the maps. Just what I needed.

John, thanks for the alternate suggestions.

Right after I received Insight's maps, I received a series of emails from the guy I bought the module from. I had written him, asking if he had the maps. He didn't, but he went and found another copy that a friend had, scanned the maps, and emailed them to me! All to satisfy a $6 sale...

I'd like to hope he is just a nice guy who would've done the same in any circumstance (after all, you guys were willing to do the same). But I can't help believing that the spectre of ebay feedback was also a strong motivator. That feedback system works, but it sure carries an insidiously tyrannical aura about it.

Carl

 

[Insight]

You're right about the feedback spectre. eBayers are deathly afraid of negative feedback. In fact, if you give someone negative feedback, they will turn around and give you retributive negative feedback, even if you did nothing wrong.

I had a situation where someone took an extraordinarily long period of time to send me my item, and failed to reply to my numerous emails on the problem. I waited until the item arrived, and then gave negative feedback due to all the problems. Of course, the guy blames the postal service, which is ridiculous since it took almost six weeks to mail something small (less than a pound) inside the states!

You just have to be careful on eBay. That's all I'm saying.

 

[CarlZog]

I hear similar stories, but I guess I've been very lucky in both my sales and purchases on ebay. This is the closest thing to a problem I've ever had, and I was very happy to see it so quickly resolved.

Thanks again.

Carl

 

[John Morrow]

John, thanks for the alternate suggestions.

The early part of my game was "inspired" by Keep on the Borderlands (much in the way the movie Troy was "inspired" by the Illiad (check the credits, that's what it says). So I basically made up my own nice version of the Keep, which is a cross between the original one and the Hackmaster version. In the process and out of curiosity, I tracked down all the versions I could fine to mine for ideas.

Here are two other bits of information you might find useful:

http://www.cmc.net/~rtaylor/greyhawk/repair.txt
http://www.jumpspace.net/DnD/

The first one is an extrapolation to properly fit the Keep into Greyhawk. It's actually more about Return to Keep on the Borderlands but you might find some of the information useful, because that module is a bit more fleshed out. The other is a 3E conversion of the module.

[Edit: Fixed the 3E Conversion URL to the top level]