Maptools with Skype DM tips needed

[Goonalan]

Maptools and Skype use... DM Tips needed.

I DM a group of six players using Maptools and Skype once a week, and a group of five players face-to-face once a week also. We're in the process of making the Maptools game a little less combat orientated and more investigative, and/or a little bit more mystery/unknown kind of flavour. Trying for the immersion I get with the face-to-face game.

First step was to ditch WOTC Core adventures- that helped.

Now we run into problems, and so on screen things are looking good and yet because of the aforementioned tools (fan-bloody-tastic as they are) things are not running as smoothly as they should, I am therefore looking for some hints and tips as to how we can improve our situation.

Example- PCs are inside and undercover in a ruined town (home to a horde of Goblins and Kobolds- think Kiris Dahn from Slaying Stone and you'd be absolutely right). PCs manage to beat down a bunch of minions (and a few others) and capture the leader type. PCs are undercover and out of sight, little or no chance of interruption- they've got the a prisoner and they need info.

What happens next-

First from my sit down group- players take a five minute break discuss what questions they need answering by the Goblin Leader type and then are back around the table and on with it- organised with a crib sheet with notes on. Result, answers to their questions (after some persuading).

Secondly from my Maptools group- players talk over each other, babble of voices, some questions get asked, many get missed, somebody takes control of the situation, somebody doesn't know that the other guy has taken control of the situation, Skype stops working for one guy- mid-sentence, several players decide job done and kill the Goblin. Result, some answers- dead Goblin.

All of the players are very good D&D players, the around the table group complete their task in significantly less time and with greater success. In the second (Maptools & Skype) group the voices of reason are lost at times in the babble (or are quiet), or are experiencing difficulties and talking in voices usually reserved for Star Wars Droids.

In short I want to find a structure, system or etiquette that I can put in place for my on-line game that makes moments such as the above easier to play out with better results (like the first group).

I'm sold on the five minute break idea, although sometimes that means a loss of immersion.

The chat window seems too small on Maptools for the players to use it to create lists of questions, also typing takes significantly longer and things are soon lost (or need to be constantly scrolled back to), and with six players offering input... and nobody reading the last reply (which is sometimes the same as the previous reply).

Mixture of voice and typed responses results sometimes in the same conclusion- things get missed, players (not their fault) miss things because they're also in the family home and the family are home- and the do not disturb sign means nothing to your four year old daughter.

Other solutions- over to you?

How do you play these moments, and keeping in mind that the above was just last nights example, there are many more instances- do we stick to initiative order throughout, do we appoint a spokesperson, although in the above example all of the players want to get in with their skill checks- Intimidate, Bluff, Diplomacy et al.

Do we have a separate space (some sort of scribble pad) all of the players can use on-line in real time so that they can formulate the questions that need answering...

Other people must have got around this- what's your solution?

 

[amerigoV]

The chat window seems too small on Maptools for the players to use it to create lists of questions, also typing takes significantly longer and things are soon lost (or need to be constantly scrolled back to), and with six players offering input... and nobody reading the last reply (which is sometimes the same as the previous reply).

You have some very good questions there - I look forward to other responses as well. I do not have a solution, but some thoughts that might help.

For the players, they can shut down most of the other windows and just have chat open. Pretty much Chat and the Selected window if they use macros. They then resize the chat window to whatever is comfortable to them.

As the GM, I wonder if you can pull the chat window to another screen if you happen to duel screen. I know you can do this with the "show handout". I have not tried it, but it might give you the Chat space you need to see better.

I'll say this - you are better than the situation I occasionally find myself- everyone in the room but one player - they tend to get lost. All in the room or all remote is better.

I am thinking of moving to Vent for voice. It naturally is push to talk (less background noise) and if someone disconnects they can get back on their own instead of having to fuss with Skype.

 

[luckless]

One big thing for using Skype is to have everyone look up how to bind the mic mute function to keys.

Tools: Options: Advanced Tab: Hotkeys:

From there, enable the "Mute Microphone" and change the short cut to it to be something that doesn't conflict with your other hot keys. Personally I use ctrl+`

It does take a bit of getting use to, as it is a toggle switch, but things are greatly improved when people learn to quickly mute their mics while not talking. If you get a few people with bad background noise, it can really kill conference calling.

I really don't know why they haven't put together a proper Push-to-Talk function for the program. It is an amazing feature that I love in Ventrilo.

 

[Treebore]

Both programs have chat windows, learn to use them.

My group would have thrown out some ideas, typed them into chat, and then they would have cast votes as to which option they wanted to go with.

Plus, when others are talking, learn to type into chat rather than try to talk over the others. That way everyone's voice gets heard, either spoken or typed.

Plus by typing, when you compile the ideas for the voting, its easier to copy/paste what has already been typed.

 

[OnlineDM]

Interesting. I've been running an online-only group using MapTool and Skype for 11 sessions now, and I've never had the cacophony experience that you describe. Maybe it's the players at my table, but if anything I have to do more to try to bring them out of their shells and speak up rather than get them to calm down and take turns while speaking.

From a game perspective, I would agree that some type of "break" is appropriate in a situation where there are multiple paths open to the party and they want to talk over their options. It could be hand-waved in-world as the PCs gathering together in a corner to talk, or it could be treated as a completely out-of-character conversation.

Either way, it sounds like the problem in your online group is that they're all talking at once and no one is listening. As the DM I try to stay out of player strategy discussions as much as possible, but in this case I think it would make sense for you to step in to organize things a little bit.

"Whoa whoa, everyone's talking at once here. How about you talk one at a time? Jaks, let's start with you. What were you saying about questioning the goblin?"

Jaks talks, others follow on with their own thoughts. If it gets chaotic again, you step in again:

"All right, hang on, I don't think Alayne ever got to finish what she was saying. Alayne, back to you."

Et cetera. If the group doesn't reach consensus, you eventually end discussion and propose a vote. And if anyone is about to do something irreversible but the rest of the party is still discussing, you should point this out.

"Okay, it sounds like there's still disagreement here. Fudrick, it sounds like you're getting ready to attack the goblin. Does anyone want to stop him?"

It's certainly going to be harder to handle this type of situation online, where people can't see one another's body language and facial expressions, but it can be done.

I also agree that using Skype's mute function is a good idea for anyone who's dealing with background noise.

 

[bobhayes]

set the wayback machine

For your Skype group, experiment with a seriously old-school device: the caller.

For the whippersnappers, the caller was a feature of 1st edition D&D. The caller is "kind of" the party leader - though nobody has to follow his or her orders. Rather, the caller serves as the organizer of the player side of the table - almost an assistant DM in charge of keeping the party manageable.

Pick one player to be the caller each time. (Shy players can be left out of the rotation if they don't want to stretch themselves.) It's the caller's job to solicit input from each player in turn, to be the principal voice of the party's official actions, and to coordinate any off-table discussion.

With Skype and Maptools, have players who want to speak use the chat window. Use the chat window ONLY for this, so that it doesn't get confusing. Players can just put up a "!" symbol when they have something that needs to be said. They can use "!!" or "!!!" to indicate urgency. The caller can then recognize people - "OK Phil, go ahead." Then when Phil is done, and Alex and Alice have "!"ed in, "OK, Alex, your turn."

The key to making it work is a little bit of discipline from the players. They have to shut up, in other words, unless they have something material to add. As the DM you can win their eager cooperation by giving small XP awards for players who are good at modulating their behavior, and perhaps giving a useful magical trinket (1x/day get a +2 on a roll, or something similar) to the player who does the best job each session of respecting other players' input.

Edited to add: as DM, once discussion has taken place, use the caller as your go-to player for asking "so what did you finally decide to do". If players are just absolutely opposed, they can act individually, but let people know that the expectation is the caller will make the final summary decision for the group and assess the weight of opinion. Talk more to the caller, less to the other players.

 

[Goonalan]

One big thing for using Skype is to have everyone look up how to bind the mic mute function to keys.

Tools: Options: Advanced Tab: Hotkeys:

From there, enable the "Mute Microphone" and change the short cut to it to be something that doesn't conflict with your other hot keys. Personally I use ctrl+`

It does take a bit of getting use to, as it is a toggle switch, but things are greatly improved when people learn to quickly mute their mics while not talking. If you get a few people with bad background noise, it can really kill conference calling.

I really don't know why they haven't put together a proper Push-to-Talk function for the program. It is an amazing feature that I love in Ventrilo.

Sorry, I don't understand the language in you answer 'bind the mic mute function to keys', I guess turn the mic on and off when someone presses a key. Again, sorry I'm from a time before PCs. I got both of my degrees without access to the internet and using a typewriter.

That said one of my more IT savvy players will know how to do this- excellent idea.

Thanks.

 

[Goonalan]

Both programs have chat windows, learn to use them.

My group would have thrown out some ideas, typed them into chat, and then they would have cast votes as to which option they wanted to go with.

Plus, when others are talking, learn to type into chat rather than try to talk over the others. That way everyone's voice gets heard, either spoken or typed.

Plus by typing, when you compile the ideas for the voting, its easier to copy/paste what has already been typed.

Yeah, I've been using Maptools now for 2.5 years (or more?), anyway certainly over 150 on-line sessions of play. The problem is with 6 people typing away and the chat window scrolling by (and people repeating what the last guy said in the chat window) it sometimes causes as much confusion as everyone talking at once or the half-and-half (some typing/some talking).

This has come about because we've moved, as I say, to a more complex style of play which involves much more investigation and considerable drop in the fights- fighting is easy, initiative ordered.

The players are suggesting we get a forum page and use this to update the investigations, we're looking into it.

Thanks for the response.

 

[Hussar]

Totally agree on having a forum page. For an online game, that's pretty much a must. There's freebie stuff out there that's pretty simple - we use Proboards for ours. A wiki is never a bad idea either, but, for keeping details, I find a forum works best.

 

[Goonalan]

Interesting. I've been running an online-only group using MapTool and Skype for 11 sessions now, and I've never had the cacophony experience that you describe. Maybe it's the players at my table, but if anything I have to do more to try to bring them out of their shells and speak up rather than get them to calm down and take turns while speaking.

From a game perspective, I would agree that some type of "break" is appropriate in a situation where there are multiple paths open to the party and they want to talk over their options. It could be hand-waved in-world as the PCs gathering together in a corner to talk, or it could be treated as a completely out-of-character conversation.

Either way, it sounds like the problem in your online group is that they're all talking at once and no one is listening. As the DM I try to stay out of player strategy discussions as much as possible, but in this case I think it would make sense for you to step in to organize things a little bit.

"Whoa whoa, everyone's talking at once here. How about you talk one at a time? Jaks, let's start with you. What were you saying about questioning the goblin?"

Jaks talks, others follow on with their own thoughts. If it gets chaotic again, you step in again:

"All right, hang on, I don't think Alayne ever got to finish what she was saying. Alayne, back to you."

Et cetera. If the group doesn't reach consensus, you eventually end discussion and propose a vote. And if anyone is about to do something irreversible but the rest of the party is still discussing, you should point this out.

"Okay, it sounds like there's still disagreement here. Fudrick, it sounds like you're getting ready to attack the goblin. Does anyone want to stop him?"

It's certainly going to be harder to handle this type of situation online, where people can't see one another's body language and facial expressions, but it can be done.

I also agree that using Skype's mute function is a good idea for anyone who's dealing with background noise.

Part of the problem is some players are louder than others and they tend to take centre stage more of the time, and when they draw a blank they don't stop doing (or talking)- obviously I interrupt them to try and get the quieter members into the play. As I stated, in combat we have no problems, it's when we're in the roleplay moments (investigation, interaction with NPCs), we often get the same voices. And the none talkers, quieter members get used to taking a back seat.

I have played over 150 sessions on Maptools, I've not experienced this before either, hence my questions, and 70 or so of those sessions were with this same group of players. The switch to a more narrative lead style of adventures has created this problem. What I'm looking for is a structure for these segments, I play them out like skill challenges, with the five minute break for the PCs to figure out (for the example used) what questions they need to ask the Goblin.

I guess what I was hoping for was for someone here to tell me that they keep an open scribble sheet (hosted) available from X in which all theri players can contribute- do the working out and get their questions ready (so they don't clog chat and/or audio.

And then to explain a protocol or formula for running such events?

I'm still hoping for something like this but other solutions would be great.

I think from what you've said I should allow them a break, and then guide the interactions and make sure all of the players get to have their say- and then try to find a consensus about what actions to take after the investigation is complete.

Thanks for the advice.