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Message: <blockquote data-quote="MoonSong" data-source="post: 6060528" data-attributes="member: 6689464">Actually the extra spells per day the sorcerer gets don't really translate into power, that is a total fallacy. You could even double their numbers and they still wouldn't get any more powerfull. Denying the sorcerer access to metamagic feats really cripples the class, part of their power rellies on being able to apply metamagic feats on the fly, the one thing the wizard cannot do, and metamagic feats allow them to use better the little amount of spells known, extra slots puf, they are meaningless with a spell list so restricted, if you don't have a spell that could change the current situation, that is as good as not having any slots left, you don't cast a spell on any of those situations. As a dedicated sorcerer player, I will tell you the sorcerer takes longer to be created than a wizard, but once done it play smoothly faster, you don't have to decide between preppared spells, you only gaze at the number of spells you have casted so far, period. I suggest you try to play the class at least once in order to understand it better, don't try to change what you don't know.If you think that giving up two or three schools is a big price for a wizard, think it better, it isn't, banning schools is such a low price when done right that may as well be meaningless (most wizards lose so little by banning Evocation and Echantment that it is almost a meme). Any extra slot for a wizard is an exponential increase in power, any extra slot for a sorcerer is just another fight he can take. Also no amount of retraining compares to the ability to basically rewrite your character sheet overnight, don't overlook that.If you are going to remove metamagic feats entirely from sorcerers, you should at least duplicate their spells known. To them is such a massive loss it isn't funny.Edit: At 5th level a sorcerer only knows 6 spells (10 if you count cantrips), at least one of those is mage armor or shield, and half of the rest are tipically situational utilities, which leaves only 3 spells that could be used for combat. So I would argue that no, the fighter is still better than a metamagicless sorcerer at that level.</blockquote>

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