Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Marionnen's Musings: Touch AC and Why it's Irrelevant
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="delericho" data-source="post: 6060659" data-attributes="member: 22424"><p>The various different ACs are an area where the 3e rules are actually really quite clever and elegant in theory, but are pretty horrible as soon as they hit practice. It's almost as if they designed the game with one eye on an eventual video game and/or electronic character manager - a computer eats this sort of stuff up, where a human just finds it to be a pain.</p><p></p><p>In theory, I agree with the OP about replacing "flat-footed" with "combat advantage" and giving a flat bonus, and also with replacing "touch AC" with <em>something</em>. I just don't think that a Reflex save is really the thing to go for - the key problem being that a save rises with level, where touch AC does not.</p><p></p><p>...</p><p></p><p>Actually, there is <em>something</em> there... a spell requiring a touch attack becomes more likely to hit as level increases (the Wizard's BAB goes up while the target's AC does not, and the target is also more likely to be larger and so have a poor touch AC). Conversely, a spell requiring a save becomes less likely to have its full effect (because Reflex save goes up with level, where the save DC is mostly static once spells of that level have been gained).</p><p></p><p>(And, yes, there are feats and items that can change both of the above, but they're both fairly rare and fairly expensive.)</p><p></p><p>Meanwhile, some spells get significantly better with caster level (fireball gains 1d6 per level, of course), where some others do not (the <em>inflict wounds</em> spells gain a palty +1 damage per level).</p><p></p><p>So, then, if they're smart, the designers have recognised this, and tied the two together - spells that require a touch attack increase in potency only slowly with level, while those requiring a save increase rapidly, so the higher level Wizard gets the interesting choice: reliably do lower damage, or go for a riskier shot at higher damage.</p><p></p><p>But... I wonder whether they actually recognised this...?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="delericho, post: 6060659, member: 22424"] The various different ACs are an area where the 3e rules are actually really quite clever and elegant in theory, but are pretty horrible as soon as they hit practice. It's almost as if they designed the game with one eye on an eventual video game and/or electronic character manager - a computer eats this sort of stuff up, where a human just finds it to be a pain. In theory, I agree with the OP about replacing "flat-footed" with "combat advantage" and giving a flat bonus, and also with replacing "touch AC" with [i]something[/i]. I just don't think that a Reflex save is really the thing to go for - the key problem being that a save rises with level, where touch AC does not. ... Actually, there is [i]something[/i] there... a spell requiring a touch attack becomes more likely to hit as level increases (the Wizard's BAB goes up while the target's AC does not, and the target is also more likely to be larger and so have a poor touch AC). Conversely, a spell requiring a save becomes less likely to have its full effect (because Reflex save goes up with level, where the save DC is mostly static once spells of that level have been gained). (And, yes, there are feats and items that can change both of the above, but they're both fairly rare and fairly expensive.) Meanwhile, some spells get significantly better with caster level (fireball gains 1d6 per level, of course), where some others do not (the [i]inflict wounds[/i] spells gain a palty +1 damage per level). So, then, if they're smart, the designers have recognised this, and tied the two together - spells that require a touch attack increase in potency only slowly with level, while those requiring a save increase rapidly, so the higher level Wizard gets the interesting choice: reliably do lower damage, or go for a riskier shot at higher damage. But... I wonder whether they actually recognised this...? [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Marionnen's Musings: Touch AC and Why it's Irrelevant
Top