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<blockquote data-quote="eamon" data-source="post: 5569945" data-attributes="member: 51942">There aren't the same effect.&nbsp; One of them affects the monster, making it provoke; and the other grants a new abilities to the PCs.&nbsp; Would a monster know of a ranger's Disruptive Strike power before he uses it?&nbsp; Of course not - he can't know the exact abilities of his opponents (again barring in-game knowledge, of course).&nbsp; Why would any other ability be different?As point of fact the rules are very slim on this matter in any case.&nbsp; They certainly don't support automatic knowledge of what a power does to others either - I already quoted the relevant bits, and that's all the rules I know of on this matter.&nbsp; The extra knowledge (over the effect a power has on it) - where do you find that rule; or how do you interpret the existing phrase to mean that?The point I'm trying to make is that you're reasoning from a default (affected creatures know unrelated effects), and are saying that my evidence is slim.&nbsp; Well, it is.&nbsp; But I don't think that's a very reasonable starting point.These kind of things take on their own life.&nbsp; It's a useful simplification to make; after all: a creature knows what a power does.&nbsp; The distinction rarely matters - so it doesn't surprise me that the less common case of a power affecting others is less well understood.Perhaps the rules were ill-phrased and CS has clarified that.&nbsp; But for the various reasons previously discussed (in short, RAW and powers that don't work otherwise), I find it unlikely that RAI is that creatures know of the entire power text.&nbsp; But heck; crazier things have certainly happened.&nbsp; I know it's a hassle finding these things, but if you'd have a link to such a Q&amp;A or CS question, it'd help.You're suggesting that the rule is vague and difficult to execute.&nbsp; Well, (A) it's D&amp;D, there's a DM for a reason, use common sense.&nbsp; And (B) that's not really true either since there's a clear cut test: who is the power's effect affecting?&nbsp; That's the creature that knows automatically.&nbsp; If the power grants an attack, the attacker knows, not the attackee.&nbsp; If the power forces the target to provoke an OA, the provoker knows, not the attacker.The only confusing thing is the conditional issue: if a power isn't yet affecting a target but might, does it know?&nbsp; And the Divine Challenge example clarifies that nicely: it doesn't matter whether the effect doesn't kick in until later.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="eamon, post: 5569945, member: 51942"] There aren't the same effect. One of them affects the monster, making it provoke; and the other grants a new abilities to the PCs. Would a monster know of a ranger's Disruptive Strike power before he uses it? Of course not - he can't know the exact abilities of his opponents (again barring in-game knowledge, of course). Why would any other ability be different? As point of fact the rules are very slim on this matter in any case. They certainly don't support automatic knowledge of what a power does to others either - I already quoted the relevant bits, and that's all the rules I know of on this matter. The [I]extra[/I] knowledge (over the effect a power has on it) - where do you find that rule; or how do you interpret the existing phrase to mean that? The point I'm trying to make is that you're reasoning from a default (affected creatures know unrelated effects), and are saying that my evidence is slim. Well, it is. But I don't think that's a very reasonable starting point. These kind of things take on their own life. It's a useful simplification to make; after all: a creature knows what a power does. The distinction rarely matters - so it doesn't surprise me that the less common case of a power affecting others is less well understood. Perhaps the rules were ill-phrased and CS has clarified that. But for the various reasons previously discussed (in short, RAW and powers that don't work otherwise), I find it unlikely that RAI is that creatures know of the entire power text. But heck; crazier things have certainly happened. I know it's a hassle finding these things, but if you'd have a link to such a Q&A or CS question, it'd help. You're suggesting that the rule is vague and difficult to execute. Well, (A) it's D&D, there's a DM for a reason, use common sense. And (B) that's not really true either since there's a clear cut test: who is the power's effect affecting? That's the creature that knows automatically. If the power grants an attack, the attacker knows, not the attackee. If the power forces the target to provoke an OA, the provoker knows, not the attacker. The only confusing thing is the conditional issue: if a power isn't yet affecting a target but might, does it know? And the Divine Challenge example clarifies that nicely: it doesn't matter whether the effect doesn't kick in until later. [/QUOTE]

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