Marshal in play

[mykovas]

One of my players has asked if I could add the Marshal to the list of available classes in our campaign. I want to say yes, especially since we have a Paladin-free campaign and this would fill the "charisma based fighter" role.

However, poking around in a few threads makes it look like people haven't had much success with the class - most people only dip into it for four levels or so.

For those that have run games with Marshals, is the class a reasonable 20-level base class for PCs?
If not, what if I changed the class to have full-BAB and reduced the skill points and/or only gave the class one good save (probably fort)?

Thanks.

 

[the_mighty_agrippa]

It's not really a great core class. I like it for dips or as a cohort.

 

[maggot]

The real problem is that it gives out way too much for one level (+Cha to all init and dex rolls for eveyone within 60' at first level), and not much for lots of levels. I would at least rule that the bonus is +1/level, max +Cha, or you will only see dips of a few levels.

 

[brehobit]

The real problem is that it gives out way too much for one level (+Cha to all init and dex rolls for eveyone within 60' at first level), and not much for lots of levels. I would at least rule that the bonus is +1/level, max +Cha, or you will only see dips of a few levels.

QFT.

It is a VERY powerful one-level dip. Esp. for a high CHR character.

A sorc in a game where there is lots of SR (underdark, outerplanes) does really well here. She can add her CHR bonus to her level check for overcoming SR, which is darn powerful. But she ALSO gets to add it to everyone else level check for SR. Very very very handy. Bards really do well here.

It is also a great great class for gestalt games. Very few of it's powers take an action, which is generally the limiting factor. So a Marshal/X (X=bard, sorc, paladin) is really quite powerful. Get a few of those in the party and it gets really crazy very quickly.

Mark

 

[Rystil Arden]

As maggot mentioned, the so-called 'minor' auras are a whole lot more major than the major auras if you have a good Cha. He also didn't mention that the one-level dip in Marshal also provides Skill Focus (Diplomacy) as a bonus feat, making it even more diptastic. One of the other huge minor auras is the one that gives +Cha to all caster level checks to penetrate SR.

Other than minor auras being super-powerful for high-Charisma characters, the marshal is a fairly wimpy class. I gave it full BAB without much of a problem.

EDIT: brehobit beat me to the SR punch

 

[RangerWickett]

For War of the Burning Sky, I created the commander class, which is designed to be a more-flexible marshal (and also one that isn't WotC IP, so we could use it, *grin*). You can see it in the WotBS player's guide, which is free to download. The link is on the main page.

 

[Mouseferatu]

I played a marshal, briefly, in an ongoing Red Hand of Doom campaign. We upgraded the class dramatically. We gave it fighter BAB, 6 skill points/level, and upped the Hit Die.

Sounds like a lot, don't it? And for a 1-level dip, it'd be too much. But for a character designed to stick with the class, that simply brought it up to par with the other martial clases.

Alas, I didn't get to play him for more than a few games before he died, but the balance seemed right.

 

[Rystil Arden]

For War of the Burning Sky, I created the commander class, which is designed to be a more-flexible marshal (and also one that isn't WotC IP, so we could use it, *grin*). You can see it in the WotBS player's guide, which is free to download. The link is on the main page.

Yep, I've looked at the class. It is definitely an interesting alternative to Marshal and did indeed strike me as an OGL revamped Marshal as soon as I saw it. The +Cha bonus to all caster level checks is potentially extremely powerful, but other than that, the Direct Orders seems to be better reined-in than the Marshal's Minor Auras, with interesting additional abilities added on. The capstone is particularly impressive. Thanks to the bonus feats, I'd say the Commander is better balanced than the Marshal (the only concern perhaps the 1-level dip for the +Cha to caster-level checks).

 

[mykovas]

It sounds like a CHA-bonus cap is the way to go, along with giving it full BAB progression.

I'm thinking +1 at first level, then +1 for every 2 levels (i.e. +1 at first, +2 at 2nd, +3 at 4th etc.). Then make the CHA bonus unlimited at 20th-level in the event someone has epic charisma.

This is bending towards house rules though. Thanks everyone.

 

[Felon]

It sounds like a CHA-bonus cap is the way to go, along with giving it full BAB progression.

I'm thinking +1 at first level, then +1 for every 2 levels (i.e. +1 at first, +2 at 2nd, +3 at 4th etc.). Then make the CHA bonus unlimited at 20th-level in the event someone has epic charisma.

This is bending towards house rules though. Thanks everyone.

It's fine as-is, IMO. Certainly limiting it to a mere +1 bonus at first level is overly heavy-handed.

OK, dip a level and get a bonus penetrating SR. You just dipped yourself out of spell progression and a caster level. You deserve to get something good out of it.

OK, dip a level and get a bonus on Initiative rolls. You just dipped yourself out of BAB if you're a warrior, and skill points if you're a skill-user. Not to mention the progression of your other class features (like sneak attack or skirmish). You deserve to get something good out of it.

Most D&D classes are front-loaded, so I don't know why folks try so hard to single out the marshal. I don't see folks clamouring for the paladin's divine grace to have a Cha cap. Nothing out of the ordinary here.