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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The_Gneech" data-source="post: 710991" data-attributes="member: 6779">I haven't played it yet, but I'm putting together a game, and the main thing I notice is that the d20 system seems to hate martial artists, and unarmed combat generally. Don't try to do Enter the Dragon with this system, you'll be sadly disappointed.In a RPG system, character balance isn't about how one type of character balances against a normal person, but instead how one PC balances against another PC, so that everybody has some cool things to do and nobody feels pointless. However, anybody who wants to create a martial artist in d20, it seems to me, is basically asking for lots of evenings of sitting around the gaming table watching everybody else accomplish anything.Some ways that martial artists get screwed:* Strong Hero? The only way to get Combat Martial Arts at first level is to take either Strong Hero or Tough Hero. However, martial arts is all about precision, not about power. That suggests the Fast Hero (who, unlike the Strong Hero, does have Balance and Tumble as class skills). The intended workaround for that is that budding martial artists should take the Athletic starting occupation to get Jump and Tumble, I suspect, but a better move would simply be to forget the Strong Hero path all together and just resign yourself to taking four levels of Fast and using a tonfa at first level (since you can't fight effectively unarmed, and being able to use nunchaku would burn a feat that could be more profitably used elsewhere).On the Subject of Nunchaku... How about a "Martial Arts Weapons Proficiency?" Nope ... every different martial arts weapon requires that you burn a feat. Let's see ... Nunchaku proficiency, or Acrobatic? Nunchaku proficiency, or Defensive Martial Arts? Nunchaku proficiency, or Dodge? Weapon Finesse (Unarmed)? Improved Initiative? Expertise? Two-Weapon Fighting? Heroic Surge? (etc.) I realize that feats aren't as precious in d20 Modern as they are in D&D, but it does seem kinda rude to allow gun-based characters one feat to use all their weapons, while requiring martial artists to use five or six to get all theirs -- especially considering how much more effective guns are than martial arts.* I'll Haaarrrrm Yoouuu! Okay, assuming you use the default stats and the Strong Hero route to martial arts (giving him 15 Str), a first level martial artist with Combat Martial arts has +3 to hit and does d4+2, with (assuming the 14 went to Dex) a DB of 13, a ref save of +2, and no tumbling ability to get into the thick of things (untrained +2). In the words of Crow T. Robot, "Not exactly Jackie Chan, is he?"Compare this to a Fast Hero armed with a Baretta, who has +2 to hit (at range) and does 2d6, with a DB of 15 (16 if they slip on a leather jacket), a reflex save of +3, and, assuming they wanted it, a Tumble of up to +7 (or +9 with the Acrobatic feat). Yes, I know guns are more deadly than fists, but take a look at the illustration on page 76, "The Combat Martial Arts feat in action." Do you really see a scene like that taking place in this system? 'cos I sure don't.* Nip Up: Daredevil. WTF? This is a mid-level kung fu move, but martial artists need to know how to stunt-drive to learn it? (And what does Nip Up have to do with stunt driving anyway?) Shouldn't this be a Martial Artist talent or possibly a feat?Anyway ... I fully admit I'm biased towards martial artists, but as a GM, I like to think I can balance that bias with the needs of gameplay. However, in this case, martial artist characters (whose schtick is, after all, being able to jump around without getting hit and fight) get a definite hosing compared to other characters, especially at low levels. I'll probably implement some house rules to get around this (I'm leaning towards a "Martial Weapons Proficiency," making Nip Up a feat, and so forth), but I'm interested to hear what everyone else has to say on the subject.   -The Gneech <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f60e.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":cool:" title="Cool    :cool:"  data-smilie="6"data-shortname=":cool:" />Edit: Some math boo-boos.</blockquote>

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