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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tellerve" data-source="post: 741441" data-attributes="member: 2412">Ok, umm, first jet li didn't break the dang gun he essentially disassembled it.  You do the same thing when you clean the gun, he just did it with someone else holding the gun.  He didn't do some chi strike to it.Elusive target?  Umm, how is that relevant with your orgre example?  I agree unbalancing strike is nice, very nice, but I don't get the elusive part of the equation.  It wouldn't help him versus the ogre.I haven't ramped up characters to 20th level and see where they are, I just don't do that sorta thing as I haven't every played nor dm'ed a character at those levels.  I'd rather see how 5th -12th level characters look as that is when I get most of my playing on.Streetfighting...ok here's a feat I don't get.  "brutal and effective fighting tactics of the streets and back alleys".  You need brawl as a feat to get it first of all so the 1d4 I've got to assume is non-lethal since brawling is non-lethal.  How is that brutal?  Brutal implies lethality to me.  So then if you get it with CMA you can only use it when having non-lethal attacks.As for my other estimations, well I don't want an 18 pts strength martial artist, not to mention the abysmal other scores he/she'll have with an 18 in one score, but I guess your playing md20 with really high point buys.My gem of my annoyance is that Brawl gives you a +1 to hit and more damage than a trained martial artist.  There, right there, a brawler doing more damage.  I don't think that is right.  It's non-lethal though!...ok get some brass knuckles, tadah.  Now he's rockin' a martial artists butt.Yes martial artists have a lot of neat feats, quite a lot in fact and I think there are good, but it still remains deeply entrenched in my mind that a brawler shouldn't do more damage that a trained martial artist.  And your 20th level martial artist doesn't have anything I see to make him better than a guy who went 6 strong, 4 tough, 10 soldierhe'd have 1d8 from improved brawl (through on some cheap brass knuckles)1d4 streetfighting+3 adv. melee smash+4 soldier greater spec+5 strength (might as well make him 18, adv to 20 like yours)Tellerve</blockquote>

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