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Message: <blockquote data-quote="IrishGuy20" data-source="post: 747334" data-attributes="member: 10819">Ok, i didnt really keep on reading.. but in reply to the very first post...i've been a DM for about 9 years now.. i've gone from original AD&D to the D20 system.here's my problem.   you're critisizing D20 for not having martial arts... D&D was the first D20 game.   In D&D world  monks have absolutely NO PLACE in that western setting.  which is what D&D is.  that is the reason both original AD&D and now D20 made Oriental Adventures.  In a world of magic and weapons, a fist is honestly gonna do jack crap.   But, for those that do wish to pursue a Monk.. the monks get more abilities per level THAN ANY OTHER CLASS.   what other class can do a touch attack (not even to do damage just literally touch them) and with in thier level in days can say "oh i dont like him, die" and the person makes a save or dies?back to my original statement... if you want to play a monk, then play OA.  but also, think irl.. you take a budoka (layman's term: martial artist) against a samurai... and 9 out of 10 times the budoka is gonna get owned.  its common sense... fists vs. steel.. who's gonna win?but then.. now you're looking at the D20 system.. which overall to me is a joke.  i play it for the simple sake of when we have new people come to the group its easy for them to learn.  but there are too many ways to munchkin/rape a character. and dont get me started on multiclassing in D20.There has only been one, count them, one system where a martial artist could end up winning very easily.. and that is the bame Bushido by Fantasy Games Unlimited, Inc. (Copyright 1981) but you'll be hard pressed to find that game.in it a martial artist could easily take a samurai down (i know cause that's what i play)In closing.... to analyze a game that a martial artist has no place in, is gonna end up in frustration.  and even in D20 OA its semi-pointless IF you are gonna  have a lot of weapons. but then OA is a book for info, to adapt to your own camp. you want a MA camp, then do a Wuxia camp (think of martial art movies) and dont hve a lot of weapons in abundance. there, your problem is solved.</blockquote>

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