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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Martial/Caster balance and the Grease spell
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<blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 8320955" data-attributes="member: 6696971"><p>Its absolutely about the strategic deployment of it, of course. Its not point-and-click like ridiculously powerful higher level spells that just outright end encounters. But that isn't the point. This can basically be used at-will. At endgame specifically, its effective deployment can be brutal for really no Team PC resource ablation.</p><p></p><p>At level 18, you're talking 19 DC for Grease. That is as close to a sure thing as it gets for 0 to +3 Dex Save creatures.</p><p></p><p>Caltrops cover 1 square (or 1/4 the area of Grease) and are only DC 15.</p><p></p><p>Ball Bearings cover 2 squares (or 1/2 the area of Grease) and are a measly DC 10.</p><p></p><p>Neither of those things are remotely worth the action economy for Fighters or Rogues at that level. Grease is profoundly better in Area of Effect and Save DC for team PC.</p><p></p><p></p><p>EDIT - [USER=6976536]@Dessert Nomad[/USER] - These were 2 * 2 creatures in a long 10 ft hall entering a huge bay (they're just reskinned FGs in terms of stats/abilities, size-wise they're large). You can't just jump over obstructions like you're thinking. Large creatures w/ any girth/size or PCs in your landing spot or blocking terrain in your landing spot shut that down. The PC in question didn't have to use Portent as the likelihood of saving against was remote due to the creature having an, I think it was, 20 % chance of success on the Dex save (they just had it in their back pocket to ensure it if needed).</p><p></p><p>As far as amplifying punitive terrain configurations goes, I don't know what to tell you. Its pretty straight-forward. There are all kinds of blocking terrain +PC configuration battlefield setup that makes erecting a punitive 4 SQ area on a battlefield very punishing for a 2*2 creature/tank. In 4e, this was more gameable (intentionally) because of (a) all of the varying kinds of hazards that the battlefield would feature + (b) all of the Forced Move effects. But 5e battlemaps should absolutely feature blocking terrain (which PCs and cohorts effectively are) and difficult terrain.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Manbearcat, post: 8320955, member: 6696971"] Its absolutely about the strategic deployment of it, of course. Its not point-and-click like ridiculously powerful higher level spells that just outright end encounters. But that isn't the point. This can basically be used at-will. At endgame specifically, its effective deployment can be brutal for really no Team PC resource ablation. At level 18, you're talking 19 DC for Grease. That is as close to a sure thing as it gets for 0 to +3 Dex Save creatures. Caltrops cover 1 square (or 1/4 the area of Grease) and are only DC 15. Ball Bearings cover 2 squares (or 1/2 the area of Grease) and are a measly DC 10. Neither of those things are remotely worth the action economy for Fighters or Rogues at that level. Grease is profoundly better in Area of Effect and Save DC for team PC. EDIT - [USER=6976536]@Dessert Nomad[/USER] - These were 2 * 2 creatures in a long 10 ft hall entering a huge bay (they're just reskinned FGs in terms of stats/abilities, size-wise they're large). You can't just jump over obstructions like you're thinking. Large creatures w/ any girth/size or PCs in your landing spot or blocking terrain in your landing spot shut that down. The PC in question didn't have to use Portent as the likelihood of saving against was remote due to the creature having an, I think it was, 20 % chance of success on the Dex save (they just had it in their back pocket to ensure it if needed). As far as amplifying punitive terrain configurations goes, I don't know what to tell you. Its pretty straight-forward. There are all kinds of blocking terrain +PC configuration battlefield setup that makes erecting a punitive 4 SQ area on a battlefield very punishing for a 2*2 creature/tank. In 4e, this was more gameable (intentionally) because of (a) all of the varying kinds of hazards that the battlefield would feature + (b) all of the Forced Move effects. But 5e battlemaps should absolutely feature blocking terrain (which PCs and cohorts effectively are) and difficult terrain. [/QUOTE]
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