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Martial/Caster balance and the Grease spell
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<blockquote data-quote="Jfdlsjfd" data-source="post: 8321501" data-attributes="member: 42856"><p>If I understand correctly, the setup was this one :</p><p></p><p> ....................WALLS WALLS</p><p>Line GREASE</p><p>of GREASE INCOMINGFIREGIANTS</p><p>PC GREASE </p><p> ................ WALLS WALLS WALLS</p><p></p><p>The grease was cast underneath the lead fire giant (who covered in fact, being a 2x2 creature, all of the greasy area) and was prone.</p><p></p><p>If this is the correct setup then:</p><p></p><p>1. By RAW, even without grease, the Giants would not have been able to push through the PCs. In this setup the big tactical advantage was the presence of walls, so the PCs would face the giants one after the other. The first of them being prone is a mild situation benefit compared to the hug benefit of having to fight a string of CR9 creature at level 17 instead of a group of CR9 creatures.</p><p></p><p>2. The prone giant #1 covering the greasy area couldn't be leaped over, not because he was there (allies don't count as obstruction, as pointed out already) but because of the PCs standing just behind him. Grease didn't increase the chokepoint's value here. If there was a space between the Greasy, giant-occupied area and the PCs, they other giants could have jumped over their comrade-in-arms, negating the threat of grease. Edit (since the ability to jump over the Grease area was questioned after this post): a STR 25 fire giant can do long jump of 25 feet per the rules. With a DC 10 Athletic checks (and with +11, it would be easy), he can clear an obstacle a quarter the length of the jump, so 6-7 ft. A prone large creature is certainly less than 2m high...)</p><p></p><p>3. Regularly intelligent, trained soldiers would certainly retreat and take the fight to a more favorable position instead of dying one after the other at a very disadvantageous bottleneck, wouldn't they?</p><p></p><p>4. To save the fight's epicness, they giants might have just shot at the wall with their 4d10+7 pew pew gun. A single attack could very well destroy a 10x10 section of it (based on the stats of the wall of stone in the wall of stone spells) to make a larger opening and remove the bottleneck. You probably envisioned something more like a steel wall, but then since they are reskinned as giant robot of doom, giving the rock attack the Siege Weapon quality could have been done on the fly to improve the game experience.</p><p></p><p>5. The ony actual benefit of grease seems to be that first fire lemming was prone instead of standing. Which is nice but hardly game changing (if they are ready to use a bad portent roll, the fighter could have shoved the giant on the first attack and made two subsequent attacks over the same action).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jfdlsjfd, post: 8321501, member: 42856"] If I understand correctly, the setup was this one : ....................WALLS WALLS Line GREASE of GREASE INCOMINGFIREGIANTS PC GREASE ................ WALLS WALLS WALLS The grease was cast underneath the lead fire giant (who covered in fact, being a 2x2 creature, all of the greasy area) and was prone. If this is the correct setup then: 1. By RAW, even without grease, the Giants would not have been able to push through the PCs. In this setup the big tactical advantage was the presence of walls, so the PCs would face the giants one after the other. The first of them being prone is a mild situation benefit compared to the hug benefit of having to fight a string of CR9 creature at level 17 instead of a group of CR9 creatures. 2. The prone giant #1 covering the greasy area couldn't be leaped over, not because he was there (allies don't count as obstruction, as pointed out already) but because of the PCs standing just behind him. Grease didn't increase the chokepoint's value here. If there was a space between the Greasy, giant-occupied area and the PCs, they other giants could have jumped over their comrade-in-arms, negating the threat of grease. Edit (since the ability to jump over the Grease area was questioned after this post): a STR 25 fire giant can do long jump of 25 feet per the rules. With a DC 10 Athletic checks (and with +11, it would be easy), he can clear an obstacle a quarter the length of the jump, so 6-7 ft. A prone large creature is certainly less than 2m high...) 3. Regularly intelligent, trained soldiers would certainly retreat and take the fight to a more favorable position instead of dying one after the other at a very disadvantageous bottleneck, wouldn't they? 4. To save the fight's epicness, they giants might have just shot at the wall with their 4d10+7 pew pew gun. A single attack could very well destroy a 10x10 section of it (based on the stats of the wall of stone in the wall of stone spells) to make a larger opening and remove the bottleneck. You probably envisioned something more like a steel wall, but then since they are reskinned as giant robot of doom, giving the rock attack the Siege Weapon quality could have been done on the fly to improve the game experience. 5. The ony actual benefit of grease seems to be that first fire lemming was prone instead of standing. Which is nice but hardly game changing (if they are ready to use a bad portent roll, the fighter could have shoved the giant on the first attack and made two subsequent attacks over the same action). [/QUOTE]
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