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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 8326055" data-attributes="member: 6795602">Sure, and how many of those rounds to you expect creatures to not actively avoid it?  Unless the terrain is very cramped grease is easy to avoid for everything but the enemies you cast it on.'Without an action' isn't how you should be comparing these things.  Fighters don't use a whole action to prone something.  They use a single attack.  And they can do that 100 rounds in a row while still attacking with the remainder of their attacks.I'm not exactly sure how that point is related to what a Fighter's Action as a spell would look like.  It's almost like you are conflating this point with Fighters are inferior (and at high levels I would agree).  But that's due primarily to a lack of versatility (with certain strong effects unavailable to them) and not due to their abilities not making strong spells if stated out as such.So what you are saying is that the Fighter at will hits a little harder than a level 2 spell?  That's impressive to me!  If we were to stat out the Fighters at will attack at level 5 it would essentially be a 2nd level spell!  Think about that.  I mean really let that sink in!I don't think your understanding the argument.  It's not about what a single effect does.  It's about what the whole Fighter's turn does.  What level of spell is that (as spells generally require your only action to do whatever it is they are going to do).I keep telling you what '2nd wind' looks like.  It's an ability that does 4d6+10 damage on a hit and heals yourself for 1d10+5 (assuming you are 5th level).  That's a pretty awesome spell for a caster.  It'd be like a very strong level 2 spell - but not quite a level 3 spell.Your trying to make specific abilities into spells and that's never what I meant.  I meant the things the Fighter can do on his turn.  Make those effects into spells.  There's plenty that the fighter does on his turn that if turned into a spell would be very powerful and i've named off numerous examples that you flat out reject already.  Until you stop rejecting the examples provided I don't see this conversation going anywhere.</blockquote>

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