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Martial/Caster balance and the Grease spell
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<blockquote data-quote="Jfdlsjfd" data-source="post: 8328222" data-attributes="member: 42856"><p>You said it was your last word in this thread so I won't criticize your point about Grease being extremely useful action denial in this particular setup, despite not sharing your idea over fighting creatures capabilities in the name of realism. I prefer my fighter to jump to a chandelier and get down in the middle of the room and subsequently attacking the foes standing next to him rather than rule "so you take falling damage and you're prone when you land, making you an easy target". But different ways to plays are all alright and I agree that lack of "high DCs" examples for regular actions are a nerf to PCs in 5e, so many DMs will be less inclined to have a level 20 fighter do wuxia-level (or Herakles-level) actions.</p><p></p><p>However, when looking at that setup, I don't think Grease (or a fighter shoving the lead AT-ST) was even necessary. The players brillantly took the fight to a place where the Large 2x2 creatures are bound to fail and it would have guaranteed a resounding success at little cost anyway for them, irrespective of the Grease spell. The 3 AT-ST were advancing in a corridor toward the PCs in a queue. They wouldn't have been able to cross two PC blocking the exit of the corridor (standing at the right-hand side green arrow) and forming a chokepoint because they are Large creature and can't move through Medium opponents squares. So, only the first ATST would have been able to attack anyway. They don't have enough movement to go for the front-liner to go back 6 squares the two other ATST as it would count as difficult terrain in order to try and attack one after the other. The geography of the fight scene has turned a "3 AT-STs encounter" into 3 single AT-ST encounter, which will be trivial for a 17th-level party. The only advantage of Grease was to give disad to the first ATST and give advantage to the PCs fighter in the front row (at the price of disadvantage for the ranged PCs) and disad on the ATST. Movement and action denial was granted by the fight scene, Grease had very little to do with it since it was replicatable at no cost by just standing there for the PCs, who obviously had at least a round to move around since one of them had the time to ready an action to cast a spell.</p><p></p><p>The PCs also lucked out on Grease because the AT-ST elected to enter the "room" (really quite small for them) in two wave. The first AT-ST hadn't spent all his movement and half his dash just at the right arrow, so even without anything to stop him, he would have moved 3 squares more. This would have resulted with, at most, the lead AT-ST in the room, the second still exiting the tunnel and the third still well into the tunnel. It would have been a terrible way to start the fight, tactically, even without any PCs intervention. If they had stopped safely in the tunnel to make sure they got all their movement before storming the "room", the grease would have landed in a far worse position than just having two fighters making a chokepoint at the green arrow.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Jfdlsjfd, post: 8328222, member: 42856"] You said it was your last word in this thread so I won't criticize your point about Grease being extremely useful action denial in this particular setup, despite not sharing your idea over fighting creatures capabilities in the name of realism. I prefer my fighter to jump to a chandelier and get down in the middle of the room and subsequently attacking the foes standing next to him rather than rule "so you take falling damage and you're prone when you land, making you an easy target". But different ways to plays are all alright and I agree that lack of "high DCs" examples for regular actions are a nerf to PCs in 5e, so many DMs will be less inclined to have a level 20 fighter do wuxia-level (or Herakles-level) actions. However, when looking at that setup, I don't think Grease (or a fighter shoving the lead AT-ST) was even necessary. The players brillantly took the fight to a place where the Large 2x2 creatures are bound to fail and it would have guaranteed a resounding success at little cost anyway for them, irrespective of the Grease spell. The 3 AT-ST were advancing in a corridor toward the PCs in a queue. They wouldn't have been able to cross two PC blocking the exit of the corridor (standing at the right-hand side green arrow) and forming a chokepoint because they are Large creature and can't move through Medium opponents squares. So, only the first ATST would have been able to attack anyway. They don't have enough movement to go for the front-liner to go back 6 squares the two other ATST as it would count as difficult terrain in order to try and attack one after the other. The geography of the fight scene has turned a "3 AT-STs encounter" into 3 single AT-ST encounter, which will be trivial for a 17th-level party. The only advantage of Grease was to give disad to the first ATST and give advantage to the PCs fighter in the front row (at the price of disadvantage for the ranged PCs) and disad on the ATST. Movement and action denial was granted by the fight scene, Grease had very little to do with it since it was replicatable at no cost by just standing there for the PCs, who obviously had at least a round to move around since one of them had the time to ready an action to cast a spell. The PCs also lucked out on Grease because the AT-ST elected to enter the "room" (really quite small for them) in two wave. The first AT-ST hadn't spent all his movement and half his dash just at the right arrow, so even without anything to stop him, he would have moved 3 squares more. This would have resulted with, at most, the lead AT-ST in the room, the second still exiting the tunnel and the third still well into the tunnel. It would have been a terrible way to start the fight, tactically, even without any PCs intervention. If they had stopped safely in the tunnel to make sure they got all their movement before storming the "room", the grease would have landed in a far worse position than just having two fighters making a chokepoint at the green arrow. [/QUOTE]
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