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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dessert Nomad" data-source="post: 8328507" data-attributes="member: 6976536">I've said multiple times that nothing I'm talking about involves a creature leaping over another creature. I'm not sure why you're so focused on leaping over creatures that you made a giant aside about it when responding to me, it's just weird to post paragraphs of stuff arguing about something irrelevant. The grease spell didn't cost them actions. When the lead giant hits the green arrow, he has 15' of movement left (according to what you said), so stands back up, and the other two are stuck behind him, costing them all a half-move. I think the third giant wouldn't even be able to get to the grease arrow without the grease there, and certainly not the fourth mentioned in the original telling. Looking at the map, anyone in the big room would be able to make a regular move on their next turn and be out of range of the giants even if the giants didn't lose their 15' coming in. I'm pretty sure the best case scenario for the giants with no grease is that the lead one could get someone in melee if the party wasn't well prepared, so at best the wizard traded his action and a first level slot to stop one giant from melee attacking on one round.I think that all of the talk about the amazing effectiveness of grease and claiming it's costing the giants bunch of their actions ignores that the party could literally just make regular moves and have at best one giant get to melee in round 2, then for the rest of the fight limit the giants to one in melee range by fighting from the corridor. This terrain is extremely well-suited for the PCs to avoid the giants just by regular movement or to bottleneck them so that they are stuck with one in melee range (if the party has someone who likes staying in melee).And you could achieve the same effect by hitting the first one with ray of frost, or having a melee combatant stand in the doorway. You could hinder them even more with other first level spells, like entangle which would take them at least 20' of extra movement (and more likely 30'-40'), depending on how you handle diagonal difficult terrain and large size creatures dealing with difficult terrain) instead of the 15' this cost.  The large creatures can also just jump over the grease. At worst they spend an extra 5' movement to fit into a medium space to squeeze past the corner, but that's a pretty iffy interpretation of terrain to me. And this gain highlights that you've stuck the 'half the part's average level CR' tanks in terrain that is very unsuited to them. The basic setup requires the giants to make at least 3 moves to be in melee range of the party, and the party has a convenient corridor the giants can only fight one at a time in, and the terrain is sized to hinder the giants mobility further by restricting their ability to jump.The fact that a group of 18th level characters can easily beat up on 3x CR9 creatures in an environment that's very unfavorable to the CR9 melee-focused creatures at the outset doesn't seem at all surprising to me.</blockquote>

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