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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Muh" data-source="post: 9587274" data-attributes="member: 7042567">Just want to point out that there are two different sides to my criticism of the abysmal martial design.1: There are enormous areas of mechanics which they are completely unable to interact with, or where they are strongly deficient2: They lack out of combat utilityThese two are not always  the same thing.An Echo Knight is like a wizard and can basically overrule GM-veto.The battle master basically has **** in terms of out of combat utility but the Echo Knight can actually teleport which is an amazing amount of utility, and it works in combat as a bonus.That's not bad.Ability bonuses are basically useless because they rely on the weak skill system, and the skill system is unreliable and hard to use in practice. (because it lacks mechanics)I am saying that warriors need a way to do X. You are saying the result of X is Y and since warriors can also do Y this is fine. But we know that they are not the same, so this is invalid.But counter example in case you want me to be rigorous:A blind person cannot see.A person with disadvantage can see.Hence blindness and disadvantage are not the same.It's a good thing too because that ability is cool, but it is one ability in one class and it is much less impactful than the fear spell, and it has no utility outside of combat either.Yes but the non-rogue martial is going to be worse at all, and at higher levels you will need to build a special anti-magic cell to hold the caster. Any conventionally built cell can hold a high level rogue.And this is also related to the crappy skill system.This is only tangentially engaging with the mechanic in question.The monk example is interesting, however. My understanding of ready action is that the reaction occurs after the trigger and would not interrupt the spell. Has this been changed in 2024 and I missed it?And so can anyone else, including the casters.This is fundamentally a version of the argument that utility does not exist. It's a bad argument.Yes, but paying for it from an NPC is admitting that this utility is unavailable to them.That's self healing which is not the same thing.Only the potion example is really relevant for my argument.</blockquote>

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