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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Manbearcat" data-source="post: 6379543" data-attributes="member: 6696971">I'm not familiar with the source material you're citing.  I think M Night (maybe) did a movie (?), but I didn't see it.  Regardless, I think I know what you're intending as your salient point; indispensability due to party dynamics means Fighter's role is always legitimized.  However, I didn't find that to be the case when GMing late mid/high level play in 2e (even though I think the 2e C&T Fighter was second to only the 4e Fighter in its awesomeness) and definitely not in 3.x (by far the worst iteration of Fighter - a truly terrible, awful class and nerfed horribly with respect to its predecessors).  In 1e UA and 4e, yes, the Fighter was a boon and his relevance endured (especially 4e). They can do this.  They just need to play a lower level than the rest of the gang.  While Boromir was an accomplished warrior, he wasn't even close to being in the league of Gimli or Legolas (all three of them Fighters if I had to put them in D&D nomenclature).Legolas is an interesting character here.  The source of his otherworldly martial ability wasn't supernatural.  Further, if Gandalf is only level 6ish, I certainly wouldn't classify him anywhere near Epic tier (level 17 +).  However, in the fiction, in all ways his abilities make the 5e Champion look like an absolute chump.  You cannot get Legolas out of the task resolution system and bounded accuracy of 5e.  Legolas could lay low dozens and dozens of orcs (with bow or blade) and float around the battlefield like a wraith.  He could bring all of that big damn hero, crazy athleticism (with pretty much 100 % efficacy) outside of combat for noncombat conflict resolution.  The Champion couldn't dream of that kind of stuff.  Even at double his level.With respect to the other means to have the Boromirs and Samwise Gamgees in a group of superior warriors, it doesn't just have be done via the level system (though that is the way it should be done for an agenda that is seeking process-sim).  It can be done beautifully with metagame mechanics.  To name a few, Fate and MHRP can do it via their infrastructure, BtVS can do it by giving the Scoobies plot points, 4e can do it via princess built Warlords or Companion Characters.I've yet to GM more than the early playtests (and I expect I won't ever be GMing it unless some of the modules turns it into a better one-off dungeon crawl than 1e or RC).  However, the system seems so familiar to me and I've run so very many AD&D 2e and 3.x games (this system basically looks like AD&D 3e and I'm certain it plays like it), that extrapolation seems trivial.I'm reluctant to buy-in to 5e's multi-pronged approach to balance at mid 2nd tier through Epic.  The vast majority of Conctration checks will be in the vicinity of 10.  This is trivially worked around via the Warcaster feat, the Resilient Feat, Transmuter's Stone, potions or stuff to give you resistance or having Shield and Mage Armor.  A level 10 High Elf Wizard with any combination thereof (or even just 14 Con and Warcaster will be passing typical Concentration checks at a rate approaching mechanical irrelevance).The reduction of DCs is accompanied by the 3.x save paradigm.  This, of course, means that creatures you are fighting are going to have outrageously poor saves in 2 of the 3 big saves.  In terms of spell proliferation being reined in, I'm not sure I see it.  Take the below Basic Set, Evocation specced, High Elf Wizard at level 10 (halfway through tier 2).  Again, this is missing some big guns from the PHB.  Just this guy below is ridiculously powerful.Blasty McBlasterson - Level 10, High Elf Evocation Wizard.1)  20 Int yields 5 + 10 = 15 spells per Long Rest.2)  Known spells just from leveling (no spellbook poaching or found spells)5 cantrips8 first level spells4 second level spells4 third level spells4 fourth level spells4 fifth level spells3)  Able to cast spells as rituals4)  5 spell levels recovered with AR5)  ES should mean there will be more evocation spells in spellbook6)  SS = 1 + spell lvl allies automatically pass their save so no friendly fire7)  PC = enemies still take 1/2 damage on successful save.8)  EE = + 5 damage to cantrips so you have more flexibility to save the majority of your 15 spell slots (of which you can get 5 more spell levels back from AR) for utility.  Just the below Cantrip load-out is awesome (and makes Gandalf weep)Acid Splash for AoE (1/2 damage on save, no friendly fire, + 5 damage)Firebolt for single target (1/2 damage on save, enormous range, + 5 damage)Minor Illusion for trickseyMage Hand and Prestidigitation for Fantasia9)  With those buffed Cantrips and AR I've got enormous versatility to pick a load-out heavy on any of the ridiculously awesome spells (encounter enders or nerfers to the point of obseletion + recon/divination master + Face + infiltration + massive defense by way of mobility/escape contingencies).Arcane EyePasswallWall of StoneGreater InvisibilityMajor ImageFlySuggestionLevitateWebHold PersonInvisibilitySleepDisguise SelfCharm PersonMage ArmorShieldProtection from EnergyDominate PersonWall of FIre10)  I'm not seeing a lack of flexibility.  I'm seeing flexible and filled with combat beat-down/control.</blockquote>

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