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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Galloglaich" data-source="post: 4547735" data-attributes="member: 77019">That doesn't seem to fit that well with how the pool works though does it?  Instead of giving a creature normal bonus to hit with it's "primary attack" and a -5 (or -2 with Multiattack) with a secondary weapon, based on arbitrary factors and forced on a fixed pattern (however comforting to veteran gamers) with the codex which attacks a monster or animal might try in which order would actually be based on reach and speed of each type of attack, the changing range of the fight as it progresses and other factors.  The determination of which is a primary attack seems to be on an illogical basis in DnD. The "secondary attack" is apparently based on how much damage it causes, a real Leopards claws probably do less damage than it's bite, but it's actually easier to hit with claws and more likely to attack with claws first since they have more reach, obviously. (A creature like a snake may have reach with a bite but that is a different type of bite.) With the codex natural attack types are based on reach and speed. so you would normally actually get a 'claw claw bite' in a more logical order, but an animal or monster wouldn't be forced to fight that way, they would have flexibility, so for example a leopard facing an armored fighter might decide to "pounce" into grapple range and bite to cause more damage / bypass the armor, wheras one facing a man armed with a knife might prefer to circle and attack with his claws. in the SRD for example a leopard gets the following attacks in "full attack" Bite +6 melee (1d6+3) and 2 claws +1 melee (1d3+1) in the Codex that would be Claws +6 in onset, +8 in melee / grapple (1-6+1 slashing), Bite +3 onset, +7 melee / grapple (1-6+3 piercing) Once at grapple it would be eligable for a rake attack which would be +9 to hit for (1-8+1 slashing)  The codex Loepard is a bit more dangerous than the SRD Leopard <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> This is put together using the "Standardized Animal Attacks" table in the Codex, a Leopard is a medium creature with a grasping bite so thats reach +0 speed +4, medium claws are reach +3 speed +5. The rake attack is considered one size category larger so equivalent to 'large claws' (1d8 damage), and is +6 to hit but can only be done in grapple range. So effectively, in an initial attack a Leopard would try with his claws first, since they have far better reach. Claws also do very good damage against unarmored targets. Against a boar which has 6 natural armor according to the SRD (meaning DR of 6 in the codex), the claws would be basically useless unless he did a bypass attack (underbelly) preferably raking with the hind-claws. Opening attacks would probably be more useful as trip attempts or to enter grapple. Since slashing attacks are very bad against armor in the Codex, the bite would be the only way to cause damage through the Boars tough hide and even there it would be tricky to hurt the beast, if he wanted to kill it quickly he'd want a Critical Hit so multi-dice attacks would be in order. So he wouldn't bite five times, probably use all his dice in one attack because once he gets the bite he can hold on and keep causing damage automatically.  After he ot the bite in he'd probably use his pool for defense and grappling checks to hang on while he kept biting... or possibly for rake attacks. Against a well armed / dangerous human I think the leopard would definitely "pounce" straight to grapple range as soon as it could where a humans reach weapons wouldn't work. All of this does remind me of how a Leopard (or any cat) actually fights, I think this way it all flows much more naturally and logically but I'm biased <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> I'm not sure how I would use Multi-Attack or Improved MultiAttack Feats with this though...  Well, again I think it would depend on reach and range etc., the weapons and armor of it's opponents, how many opponents there were, and how big the Dragon was. My chart of animal attacks only currently goes up to "large" by which I was envisioning about Grizzly Bear sized. A Dragon would be a couple of orders of magnitude further up the scale I think.... have to tinker with that a bit, maybe I'll add a few rows on that chart for the next update.  Ah... nature is such a good teacher. Was that a darwin award recipient? G.</blockquote>

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