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Martials > Casters
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<blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 7947747" data-attributes="member: 12731"><p>The thing that makes the issue a really big one is this:</p><p></p><p>Difficulty.</p><p></p><p>(I obviously understand you can make things much harder or easier yourself as the GM; but now I'm discussing running an official AP as written)</p><p></p><p>When combats are nice and easy, you can appreciate luxury.</p><p></p><p>One such luxury is "I'm not letting my hot bod anywhere near the claws of the monster". Wizards and Archers are especially fond of this line of thinking. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /></p><p></p><p>But when combats get more and more difficult, one resource gets more and more important. You as a target. Spreading out damage over every hero.</p><p></p><p>That is, in really difficult fights, "ranged" is a luxury you can't afford, since every hero needs to offer up their warm flesh for monsters to hit. If they don't, the frontliners will get overwhelmed. Even if only some hits are redirected towards other targets, that makes a huge difference to the staying power of your frontliners.</p><p></p><p>This means that yes, we can discuss how ranged fire don't get all the eleven* bonuses 5E offers over 3E to ranged hero archetypes.</p><p></p><p>But in the end, it doesn't really matter. You're better off creating a hero that wants to be in the thick of it, because that's where you'll end up eventually anyway.</p><p></p><p>What I am saying is: having a wizard or archer means having to fight monsters with 2 fewer warm bodies to soak hits. When things are nice and easy, this is fine, and their contributions are appreciated. When things get hairy, however, the fact that they likely won't volunteer to help distribute monster attacks away from the frontliners become a real challenge.</p><p></p><p>It's still possible to play PF2 that way, don't get me wrong. And I'm definitely not saying "don't bother with ranged attacks" since having a weak ranged game is a serious handicap in any fight where the monsters don't want to close to melee.</p><p></p><p>All I'm saying is that is this is the factor that I feel ultimately cements my initial claim: martials > casters, even after taking things like the lack of bonuses to ranged fire and the way PF2 monsters can't easily be outmaneuvered like in 5E into account.</p><p></p><p><span style="font-size: 12px">*) Once several years ago I wrote up a list of things 5E changed to make ranged fire better (vs 3E). I still can't find that list... I wish I would, since IIRC I could find no less than eleven such things!</span></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CapnZapp, post: 7947747, member: 12731"] The thing that makes the issue a really big one is this: Difficulty. (I obviously understand you can make things much harder or easier yourself as the GM; but now I'm discussing running an official AP as written) When combats are nice and easy, you can appreciate luxury. One such luxury is "I'm not letting my hot bod anywhere near the claws of the monster". Wizards and Archers are especially fond of this line of thinking. :) But when combats get more and more difficult, one resource gets more and more important. You as a target. Spreading out damage over every hero. That is, in really difficult fights, "ranged" is a luxury you can't afford, since every hero needs to offer up their warm flesh for monsters to hit. If they don't, the frontliners will get overwhelmed. Even if only some hits are redirected towards other targets, that makes a huge difference to the staying power of your frontliners. This means that yes, we can discuss how ranged fire don't get all the eleven* bonuses 5E offers over 3E to ranged hero archetypes. But in the end, it doesn't really matter. You're better off creating a hero that wants to be in the thick of it, because that's where you'll end up eventually anyway. What I am saying is: having a wizard or archer means having to fight monsters with 2 fewer warm bodies to soak hits. When things are nice and easy, this is fine, and their contributions are appreciated. When things get hairy, however, the fact that they likely won't volunteer to help distribute monster attacks away from the frontliners become a real challenge. It's still possible to play PF2 that way, don't get me wrong. And I'm definitely not saying "don't bother with ranged attacks" since having a weak ranged game is a serious handicap in any fight where the monsters don't want to close to melee. All I'm saying is that is this is the factor that I feel ultimately cements my initial claim: martials > casters, even after taking things like the lack of bonuses to ranged fire and the way PF2 monsters can't easily be outmaneuvered like in 5E into account. [SIZE=3]*) Once several years ago I wrote up a list of things 5E changed to make ranged fire better (vs 3E). I still can't find that list... I wish I would, since IIRC I could find no less than eleven such things![/SIZE] [/QUOTE]
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