Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Martials: damage scaling like cantrips?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="NotAYakk" data-source="post: 9684692" data-attributes="member: 72555"><p>So, I've messed with this extensively.</p><p></p><p>What I ended up with that sort of works looks like this:</p><p></p><p>1. When making a weapon attack, at 5th 11th and 17th level you deal an additional [W] damage. So a 2 handed sword at level 11 by default deals 6d6.</p><p></p><p>2. <strong>Extra Attack</strong> on a Fighter reads: When you make the attack action, you can sacrifice one [W] of damage on all of your attacks to make an additional attack. At level 11 and 17 they just get more attacks without having to give up [W]s.</p><p></p><p>3. I also add a <strong>Combat Dominance</strong> feature to Fighter 5: On your turn, you have advantage on weapon attacks if the target of your attack has not attacked you or caused you to make a saving throw since the end of your last turn. (This is a pseudo-marking mechanic). This gives Fighters a pseudo-mark mechanic (if you ignore the fighter, they'll mess you up).</p><p></p><p>4. I also made Action Surge read: You can make an additional attack, move your speed, and gain advantage on attribute checks in addition to your other actions on your turn, but only once on your turn and you cannot do this again until you complete a short rest. You get extra uses of this feature. </p><p></p><p>4. Barbarians (a) an unarmed or improvised attack, and (b) even more [W] dice starting at level 5.</p><p></p><p>5. Paladins get advantage on attacks on creatures who have damaged <strong>someone else</strong>, and extra radiant damage starting at level 5. They do this through an EK-like "blessed weapon". (This gives paladins a pseudo-mark mechanic). At higher levels they get both extra SMITE damage dice and radiant base damage.</p><p></p><p>6. Rangers get "Bladesinger" style "you can cast a ranger spell that requires an action and make an attack as part of the attack action" starting at 5. They also get some tweaked cantrips.</p><p></p><p>7. Monks get a 2nd bonus action, and flurry is 1 attack and no longer a bonus action or an action, just 1/turn.</p><p></p><p>Part of the goal is to ensure that all melee characters have a distinct game loop; they feel different to play.</p><p></p><p>The fighter feels the most like the base 2024 fighter; except they have the combat dominance game to play. And action surge isn't pure damage, but also maneuverability and tricks. (I also buff up second wind; I think it should be a half-heal with a defensive buff, so you use it when you are down to 25% and are being focused on).</p><p></p><p>The paladin is playing a crit-fishing game with smites and hard blows. Their damage bonus doesn't stack with weapon size, so using a 1 handed + shield is very tempting.</p><p></p><p>The Barbarian is gettting one big hit per turn instead of 2 smaller ones, plus a punch or an improvised attack. Hitting someone for 12d6 is its own reward.</p><p></p><p>The monk's gaining of bonus actions gives it a lot of flexibility with it choices features. Each bonus action can be a MA attack, or use its dodge/dash/etc abilities to reposition. Their core action is now just 1 attack; this means their action is very cheap, as more of their power budget is in their 2 bonus actions or their "action-free" flurry.</p><p></p><p>Rangers choose between a cantrip or a ranger spell each turn, plus get an attack. This is a big difference. Many of their spells also gives attacks, as would some of their cantrips.</p><p></p><p>---</p><p></p><p>Anyhow, the end result of this is effectively exponential damage output from melee types; every 4-5 levels melee character damage output doubles.</p><p></p><p>This has to be matched with a similar increase in damage output of spellcasters. Sorcerers, I kill flexible casting and give them sorcery points as a short rest resource. Then I auto-upcast spells based on the number of sorcery points you spend. And at level 11+ it starts getting even more gonzo.</p><p></p><p>After this entire balance sweep, we now have to go after monsters.</p><p></p><p>The base PC goes from roughly linear damage and HP (very roughly; more affine, but), to exponential damage and linear HP.</p><p></p><p>An appropriate monster then needs exponential HP and linear damage. Well, I often tweak up self-healing of PCs as well, which makes HP somewhat super-linear, but not by much.</p><p></p><p>You then rejigger monsters that way, then use (HP*Damage*2^([AC+ATK]/10)^0.6 to get an XP value. This lets you use higher or lower level monsters, and just add up XP for a fight.</p><p></p><p>All of this is a fair amount of work. It isn't as hard if you only have a handful of players, but resweeping the entire game is a bitch.</p><p></p><p>---</p><p></p><p>TL;DR - the damage boost is huge, so you end up having to rejigger much of the game.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="NotAYakk, post: 9684692, member: 72555"] So, I've messed with this extensively. What I ended up with that sort of works looks like this: 1. When making a weapon attack, at 5th 11th and 17th level you deal an additional [W] damage. So a 2 handed sword at level 11 by default deals 6d6. 2. [b]Extra Attack[/b] on a Fighter reads: When you make the attack action, you can sacrifice one [W] of damage on all of your attacks to make an additional attack. At level 11 and 17 they just get more attacks without having to give up [W]s. 3. I also add a [b]Combat Dominance[/b] feature to Fighter 5: On your turn, you have advantage on weapon attacks if the target of your attack has not attacked you or caused you to make a saving throw since the end of your last turn. (This is a pseudo-marking mechanic). This gives Fighters a pseudo-mark mechanic (if you ignore the fighter, they'll mess you up). 4. I also made Action Surge read: You can make an additional attack, move your speed, and gain advantage on attribute checks in addition to your other actions on your turn, but only once on your turn and you cannot do this again until you complete a short rest. You get extra uses of this feature. 4. Barbarians (a) an unarmed or improvised attack, and (b) even more [W] dice starting at level 5. 5. Paladins get advantage on attacks on creatures who have damaged [b]someone else[/b], and extra radiant damage starting at level 5. They do this through an EK-like "blessed weapon". (This gives paladins a pseudo-mark mechanic). At higher levels they get both extra SMITE damage dice and radiant base damage. 6. Rangers get "Bladesinger" style "you can cast a ranger spell that requires an action and make an attack as part of the attack action" starting at 5. They also get some tweaked cantrips. 7. Monks get a 2nd bonus action, and flurry is 1 attack and no longer a bonus action or an action, just 1/turn. Part of the goal is to ensure that all melee characters have a distinct game loop; they feel different to play. The fighter feels the most like the base 2024 fighter; except they have the combat dominance game to play. And action surge isn't pure damage, but also maneuverability and tricks. (I also buff up second wind; I think it should be a half-heal with a defensive buff, so you use it when you are down to 25% and are being focused on). The paladin is playing a crit-fishing game with smites and hard blows. Their damage bonus doesn't stack with weapon size, so using a 1 handed + shield is very tempting. The Barbarian is gettting one big hit per turn instead of 2 smaller ones, plus a punch or an improvised attack. Hitting someone for 12d6 is its own reward. The monk's gaining of bonus actions gives it a lot of flexibility with it choices features. Each bonus action can be a MA attack, or use its dodge/dash/etc abilities to reposition. Their core action is now just 1 attack; this means their action is very cheap, as more of their power budget is in their 2 bonus actions or their "action-free" flurry. Rangers choose between a cantrip or a ranger spell each turn, plus get an attack. This is a big difference. Many of their spells also gives attacks, as would some of their cantrips. --- Anyhow, the end result of this is effectively exponential damage output from melee types; every 4-5 levels melee character damage output doubles. This has to be matched with a similar increase in damage output of spellcasters. Sorcerers, I kill flexible casting and give them sorcery points as a short rest resource. Then I auto-upcast spells based on the number of sorcery points you spend. And at level 11+ it starts getting even more gonzo. After this entire balance sweep, we now have to go after monsters. The base PC goes from roughly linear damage and HP (very roughly; more affine, but), to exponential damage and linear HP. An appropriate monster then needs exponential HP and linear damage. Well, I often tweak up self-healing of PCs as well, which makes HP somewhat super-linear, but not by much. You then rejigger monsters that way, then use (HP*Damage*2^([AC+ATK]/10)^0.6 to get an XP value. This lets you use higher or lower level monsters, and just add up XP for a fight. All of this is a fair amount of work. It isn't as hard if you only have a handful of players, but resweeping the entire game is a bitch. --- TL;DR - the damage boost is huge, so you end up having to rejigger much of the game. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Martials: damage scaling like cantrips?
Top