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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 8970977" data-attributes="member: 7030563">Without using limited resources yes.  A Bladesinger should not be WAY better out of combat without using limited resources and neither should a Paladin.I would argue a Bladesinger is actually going to be worse than a fighter out of combat without using spells because with the same rolls she is typically going to have a lower Wisdom and Charisma.  A Paladin will probably be about the same out of combat as a fighter without using limited resources.What is there to explain?  A fighter should not be WAY better at melee than other characters designed for melee.  They should be close to the same at doing what they are designed to do.No they won't.  To start with the fighter is getting three attacks and 3 extra feats at 13th level means 4 ASIs and 3 feats.  At least one of them can be a fighting style and with the wider number available there is ALWAYS going to be a very good one to take.Between Defense, Archery, Thrown Weapon Fighting, Dueling and Unarmed combat there are at least 2 fighting styles for every fighter style you want that will be a significant boost, meanwhile a Bladesinger does not get any fighting style and a Paladin has fewer good choices.Think about this - Thrown Weapon Fighting Style, Feat-Archery Fighting Style, Feat-Sharpshooter, Feat-GWM, Feat-Slasher, Feat-Crusher, Feat-Heavy Armor Master, Feat-Pole Arm MasterThis character would gave a 20 strength on point buy and DESTROY any bladesinger or Paladin possible at both melee and ranged combat with weapons (throwing darts) and that is before we even consider the subclass abilities.  Heck that character would dominate melee while also outruning a Ranger XBE-Sharpshooter in ranged fights without even using a bonus action!That is a silly comparison. A fighter is not designed to be a spell caster.  They should not be able to cast spells as well as a Wizard.On the other hand a Bladesinger is a melee designed subclass though and they should be able to melee pretty close to what a fighter can do without resorting to spells.Basically your arguement here is the Bladesinger can cast spells so it should not be nearly as good at using weapons.  That argument has no basis.  A Bladesinger should be nearly as good at melee in addtion to being able to cast spells and "blowing most fighters out of the water".  A Bladesinger should be able to do both because that is what it is designed to do.  That is what the theme is.  A fighter is only designed to do one of those things, should only do one of those things and should not do it heads and shoulders better than other builds designed to do it.IF the fighter is going to get another 3 feats to get better at melee than other melee builds should get that as well so they can keep up.</blockquote>

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