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Message: <blockquote data-quote="NotAYakk" data-source="post: 8974761" data-attributes="member: 72555">No it does not.Ok, I'll be concrete.I mean, suppose there is some problem that requires a Wizard to solve.  Like flight.If both Wizards and Fighters can make a DC 20 athletics check to fly, with a consequence if you get below 10, this makes Fighters better compared to Wizards.Even if the Wizard could invest in athletics proficiency (and strength) and save the spell slot.I mean, I've used a 1 level fighter dip with a blade bard to basically be a fighter with Spellcasting utility.  And it did give me capabilities that a pure wizard/spellcaster did not.  So I have actual in-play evidence to the contrary; the features that Fighters get do make a difference in play.The simple fact is the gap is a matter of ratio not a matter of distance.The problem isn't "there are 3 cool things a wizard can do that a fighter cannot", and if you give both the wizard and fighter 100 more cool things they can both do that 3 cool thing gap will remain the same.  The problem is there are 3 cool things a fighter can do and 6 that a wizard can do, which means the wizard has twice as many cool things to do as the fighter.In one case 6-3 is the same as 16-13 and 106-103.  But in the other, 6/3 is way different than 16/13 or 106/103.This is one of the reasons why people patch over the difference between martials and spellcasters with magic items.  Because both a wizard and a fighter can use winged boots, but the winged boots on the fighter close the gap more.Barring exploits like the magic missile exploits or a one fight per day novas or similar, 5e fighters are actually significantly better at putting out damage than Wizards are?  What combos I do find to put out massive damage as wizards either require interesting rules interpretations or the like.And with how tough 5e monsters are designed, HP damage is king.  There aren't that many no-save-or-suck spells, and bashing through legendary resists against a magic resistant mundane weapon immune creature with proficiency in all saves is resource expensive.The main point, however, is that your framework automatically ignores anything that adds to every PC and dismisses it as irrelevant and disallows it from consideration.If your problem is that the gap is large, use that argument.  "The extra proficiency doesn't matter because it is tiny next to what wizards do" is a different argument than "adding a proficiency to both wizards and fighters doesn't matter, because anything added to both cannot help fix the gap".I'm holding the second argument is wrong.  If you go and change your position to the first argument?  Then you aren't addressing my objection, you are moving the goal posts.</blockquote>

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