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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 8974900" data-attributes="member: 67338">lets go with 2 5 person parties....party 1 (all caster) has a bladsinger wizard, a war cleric, a college of sword bard, and a hexblade multi into palidenparty 2 (mostly non casters) has a rouge arcane trickster and a gloom ranger... but then a fighter (champion) and a radiant soul monkwhat characters get a new option... all 8what character loose an option NONE so the bladsinger war cleric and bard are still full casters and the arcane trick rogue is still a 1/3 caster with all the options they had before BUT now they all have a new "make a DC XX skill to do Y" I have seen people take 1, 2 and even 3 level dips on casters into non casters to buff hp and get something like action surge (infact I joked a few times on here that a wizard 9/fighter (elddritch knight) 3was better then any non full caster in the game with action surge, 10th level casting on a 12th level character and if you did the 1st dip at 1st level a maxed d10 hp and prof in con saves) lets talk about choices at creation and choice round to rounda 1st level wizard has 6 spells known and 3 cantrips known can prep 4(assuming a 16 int) spells per day and has 2 spell slots... the fighter has second wind and a fighting style...  not the same but not REALLY far off.level them both up to level 5, the fighter now has action surge (the best feature they get) and a second attack (the weird class feature that a bunch can get so not really unquie) the wizard got 8 more spells known that can be now 2nd and 3rd level spells and another cantrip. spells lots are now 4/3/2 and you have arcane recovery 2both got a feat/asi and subclasslevel up to 9th and this gets worse... until level 11 the fighter is making 2 attacks and has action surge, where most other melee characters are makeing 2 attacks (including full casters) they do get at 9th a reroll of a save that helps.over a wizard a fighter has on average 2 more hp per level, over other full casters (bard, hexblade, cleric ect) that drops to 1. but 6-3 is first level... full casters get more and more each level and fighters don't. look at the above example only to 5th 8 more spells known 7 more spells per day plus arcane recovery and an extra cantrip.... you give them 100 and at 1st level that is 103-106 at fith its 104-119 the full caster still breaks out (although it may be slower)equally optimized fighters and wizards (that want to deal damage) is not a massive diffrence... I did it out last year and a combat spec wizard was around 80% the damage and 95% the tankability of a fighter BUT still had a few misc tricksunless you have hold person, or Tasha's laugh or sleep or any number of other Sod or SosI limited myself to ones of first and second level and I found several.... the most legendary resistence I have seen (I may have missed some) is 3/day... at what level can you throw 6?  oh 5th level</blockquote>

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