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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 8975017" data-attributes="member: 67338">I;m not sure strong is the right word... and it;s not limited to wizard, but close enoughagain that was your words not mine... I'm not even sure where strong comes from.I have used the word versitile, or complex but not strong. if you don't want to talk to people about things posting in public discussion is an odd way to go about itexcept again, YOU came up with "wizards are too strong" not me. and as I said to a limited extent for very low level it will.10 vs 3 is a difference of 7   47 vs 9 is a difference of 38116 vs 15 is a difference of 111adding 50 to all thos number starts at 60 vs 53 but ends at 166 vs 65adding 100 to all those numbers starts at 110 vs 102 and ends at 216 vs 115sooner or later you need to add JUST to the lower number not the higher.no goal post movingthen lets compaire fighter and wizard...fighter over 20 levels gets 2hp per level more then wizardfighter gets 2 action surge and 1 second wind per short rest over wizardfighter gets a bunch of armor and weapon profs over wizarda fighter gets indomitable 3/day over wizard.a fighter makes 4 attacks  (although only at level 11+ is that more then other melee characters) they both get a background, they both get a subclass so lets call those a washlets call that hp as 1 prof in weapons as 1 prof in armor as 1 fighting style as 1,  3 surges/second wind per short rest lets call 9 (so 2 short rests)indomitable 3 so that is 15... now how to count extra attack, is that 1 cantrip (it scales like 1) or is it 3 thins... lets go in the middle and call it 2 so that is 18a full caster can prep 20+ caster mod (most likely 5 but atleast 3) spells so that is already just with prep spells more... but 22 spells per day recalling 10 on short rests so that is like 27ish... so is spell casting 23 or 27? lets call it 23... but wait how mayn spells known do they have 6+ 2 per level after 1st (44 known spells) 5 cantrips and 2 spell mastery 2 signature spells (basicly more cantrips) of the 18 things the fighter they pick there fighting style and those two feat/asi teh rest are just given no choice. the full caster picks 49 spells (44 leveled 5 cantrip) then each day preps about half of them  (23-25) to prep and on a short rest they get to pick what level of slots to recall. wizard abilities scale, you can upcast spells, or just have a higher level version of the spell. Nothing really scales for a fighter, even when you pick the most complex subclass (weapon master) you get the same choice at level 17+ as you do at level 3. so lets say we add 2 dozen tricks ANYONE can do.  the wizard still has 50ish spells and some of those (the minority) are at will</blockquote>

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