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Martials should just get free feats
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<blockquote data-quote="FrogReaver" data-source="post: 8975420" data-attributes="member: 6795602"><p>I agree with this principle, but in actual gam terms it's more like 12-0 or 15-3. While the later is a slight improvement for the fighter, it's still no where near the wizard. Like your thought is technically correct but real D&D doesn't start with the wizard/fighter ratio of cool things being anywhere near 6-3. It's Closer to 12-0 or possibly even more in the wizards favor.*</p><p></p><p>*To be noted - this is only after the wizard reaches a sufficient level.</p><p></p><p></p><p>As an example. A wizard can have a single simulacrum of whatever fighter you have. That simulacrum alone can equal damage output of the fighter. After that a wizard can use a single 6th level slot for a Tasha's summon spell, getting 3 more attacks at a solid attack modifier, doing 14 damage per hit. Then the wizard can use a 3d10 (16.5 avg) firebolt with his action the rest of the encounter in addition to the simulacrum and tasha's summon undead. That's only 2 spells, both of which can likely last multiple encounters in a dungeon environment and the wizard is likely doubling the single target damage of the fighter. Also, there are combos like force cage combo'd with sickening radiance that simply end most monsters that fit inside the forcecage.</p><p></p><p>*Note simulacrum is a spell i think should be banned but it's still a large part of wizards perceived power.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If you are talking solo monster encounters then sure. If you are talking a strong monster with help then the help can usually be far more easily controlled with wizard spells - which is a strong contribution to such an encounter even if a cantrip is only cast the rest of the time.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I think people just aren't being nuanced enough. By the time you add all the nuances in, i think the point still falls flat as I noted above, but that's getting far more into specifics than the broader general statements that tend to make for better discussions IMO.</p><p></p><p></p><p>As you demonstrated yourself, the gap is still there, it's just the ratio that matters more. Which somewhat ironically takes us to your first statement about the gap too large for a single proficiency to fix.</p><p></p><p></p><p>When your counter to point 2 immediately takes us to point 1 then it's not moving the goal posts to go there. You opened that door.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FrogReaver, post: 8975420, member: 6795602"] I agree with this principle, but in actual gam terms it's more like 12-0 or 15-3. While the later is a slight improvement for the fighter, it's still no where near the wizard. Like your thought is technically correct but real D&D doesn't start with the wizard/fighter ratio of cool things being anywhere near 6-3. It's Closer to 12-0 or possibly even more in the wizards favor.* *To be noted - this is only after the wizard reaches a sufficient level. As an example. A wizard can have a single simulacrum of whatever fighter you have. That simulacrum alone can equal damage output of the fighter. After that a wizard can use a single 6th level slot for a Tasha's summon spell, getting 3 more attacks at a solid attack modifier, doing 14 damage per hit. Then the wizard can use a 3d10 (16.5 avg) firebolt with his action the rest of the encounter in addition to the simulacrum and tasha's summon undead. That's only 2 spells, both of which can likely last multiple encounters in a dungeon environment and the wizard is likely doubling the single target damage of the fighter. Also, there are combos like force cage combo'd with sickening radiance that simply end most monsters that fit inside the forcecage. *Note simulacrum is a spell i think should be banned but it's still a large part of wizards perceived power. If you are talking solo monster encounters then sure. If you are talking a strong monster with help then the help can usually be far more easily controlled with wizard spells - which is a strong contribution to such an encounter even if a cantrip is only cast the rest of the time. I think people just aren't being nuanced enough. By the time you add all the nuances in, i think the point still falls flat as I noted above, but that's getting far more into specifics than the broader general statements that tend to make for better discussions IMO. As you demonstrated yourself, the gap is still there, it's just the ratio that matters more. Which somewhat ironically takes us to your first statement about the gap too large for a single proficiency to fix. When your counter to point 2 immediately takes us to point 1 then it's not moving the goal posts to go there. You opened that door. [/QUOTE]
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