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Martials should just get free feats
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<blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 8976161" data-attributes="member: 7030563"><p>Yes, but you said 95% of a fighter. 2 hps is 33% less than a fighter and they start with a much worse AC before those spells.</p><p></p><p>To be clear I said if they focus on doing 95% of the tankability they won't match the damage. For example throwing up blur or PEG and then mirror image while sporting precast mage armor and max dex will roughly equal a fighter in plate and shield without any fighting style or subclass abilities to boost AC. But you took 2 rounds to do that, are way behind the fighter before you even start damaging and your cantrips do less damage.</p><p></p><p>On the other hand you could cast shadowblade or flaming sphere on turn 1 and keep up with that fighter pretty well (as long as concentration holds) but you will be very fragile and not nearly as tankable.</p><p></p><p>Going with a bladesinger subclass mitigates a lot of this and makes you arguably the best tank in the game, being more survivable than a fighter when optimzed for it, but you will still be substantially behind a Fighter on damage. Again, using something like Shadoblade instead of Blur will even out the damage but then you are not as durable as a fighter</p><p></p><p>The key here is a Fighter does both of these well, and without using any spells. A Wizard has to choose which she wants to do.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I have a ton of experience playing bladesingers and they really can be a great tank, and I play them with a 10 constitution even and still go right into the thick of combat. But if you are not casting blur or PEG or dodging you will not survive long against tough foes. And if you are doing those things, you can't keep up with a fighter on melee damage. It is math - when when the enemy has a +15 with a multiattack he is going to hit your 27AC often if you are not making him roll with disadvantage.</p><p></p><p>You can mitigate this some with upcast false life, 5th level false life-contingency and Song of Defense, but Song of Defense is a reaction, so when you use it your effective AC drops by 5 and again you are burning the high level slots you would be using for a damage-enhancing spell.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I was talking about using SOS spells to penetrate Legendaries, IME that is tough to do. Against Kobolds, Orcs or really anything without legendaries SOS is usually much better than damage.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ECMO3, post: 8976161, member: 7030563"] Yes, but you said 95% of a fighter. 2 hps is 33% less than a fighter and they start with a much worse AC before those spells. To be clear I said if they focus on doing 95% of the tankability they won't match the damage. For example throwing up blur or PEG and then mirror image while sporting precast mage armor and max dex will roughly equal a fighter in plate and shield without any fighting style or subclass abilities to boost AC. But you took 2 rounds to do that, are way behind the fighter before you even start damaging and your cantrips do less damage. On the other hand you could cast shadowblade or flaming sphere on turn 1 and keep up with that fighter pretty well (as long as concentration holds) but you will be very fragile and not nearly as tankable. Going with a bladesinger subclass mitigates a lot of this and makes you arguably the best tank in the game, being more survivable than a fighter when optimzed for it, but you will still be substantially behind a Fighter on damage. Again, using something like Shadoblade instead of Blur will even out the damage but then you are not as durable as a fighter The key here is a Fighter does both of these well, and without using any spells. A Wizard has to choose which she wants to do. I have a ton of experience playing bladesingers and they really can be a great tank, and I play them with a 10 constitution even and still go right into the thick of combat. But if you are not casting blur or PEG or dodging you will not survive long against tough foes. And if you are doing those things, you can't keep up with a fighter on melee damage. It is math - when when the enemy has a +15 with a multiattack he is going to hit your 27AC often if you are not making him roll with disadvantage. You can mitigate this some with upcast false life, 5th level false life-contingency and Song of Defense, but Song of Defense is a reaction, so when you use it your effective AC drops by 5 and again you are burning the high level slots you would be using for a damage-enhancing spell. I was talking about using SOS spells to penetrate Legendaries, IME that is tough to do. Against Kobolds, Orcs or really anything without legendaries SOS is usually much better than damage. [/QUOTE]
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