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Message: <blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 8976253" data-attributes="member: 6790260">The problem is, you're ignoring all of the much higher level damage spells the Wizard can throw in if they wish, while counting the Fighter's resources like Action Surge.Fire bolt already gives really reliable damage output, and you've pointed out toll the dead which gives 4d12 (especially tasty against the big meat sack type monsters which often have weak Wis saves.) The former 4d10 all the time at +5 hit bonus; the "tanky" Fighter (rapier/longsword and shield) can put out at most 4d8+20 all the time. That's 22 vs 18+20 = 38, or (22/38) ≈ 57.9% of the Fighter's output without counting crits, which would favor the Wizard (because crits don't affect static damage, only rolled damage.) If we instead count the 4d12 toll the dead, it becomes 26 vs 38, or ~68.4% of the Fighter's reliable damage output.Throw in but a single fireball that hits multiple targets or a single harder-hitting single-target spell, and the gap narrows further.Plus? You're comparing 20th level characters. Cantrips scale up to max at 17. Even before getting Spell Mastery, fire bolt is doing 4d10 on a hit vs. the Fighter's 3d8+15. 22 vs 13.5+15 =28.5. That's now almost 80% (77.2%) of the "tanky" Fighter's reliable damage output, which any Wizard can replicate, and which will get more favorable if crits are factored in. (E.g., assume both have a 55% chance to hit and a further 5% chance to crit. That's .55×22+.05×44=14.3 DPR vs .55×13.5+.05×27+.55×15=9.3265 DPR, meaning the Wizard actually does MORE damage reliably than the Fighter does on average!) The big difference is, the Wizard is chunkier. The Fighter is very unlikely to miss all three attacks (0.4^3 = 0.064, so missing all attacks is about as likely as any one attack critting), whereas the cantrip-user is all or nothing, either it's 22 average (44 if crit) or it's zero.And if we bring in short-rest resources like Action Surge, the Wizard can easily deal an extra, comparable chunk of damage with a single 3rd-4th level spell. Something they can do several times a day...while still having their big guns in reserve.Bladesingers are even worse, because they could at level 18 make shadow blade a Spell Mastery spell. Now they're dealing 2d8+5 psychic damage per attack and can make two attacks per round, one of which can be a cantrip.2d8+5 + 4d12 = 9+5+26 = 40 damage if the attack lands and the save is failed. Even at level 20 and assuming a greatsword, the Fighter is only getting 4d12+20 = 46 damage. Switch to fire bolt and allow for crits, and the Bladesinger wins on reliable damage. Each Action Surge needs only a single spell slot to match for damage output, especially if the Wizard has AoE damage spells.The Bladesinger gives you easily 80% of the Fighter's combat prowess...while still having at least half of the baseline Wizard's kit left over to do all the things Fighters have zero features to interact with.No, it's not. Not at level 17+. You have four ASIs at that level. Int would be maxed out by level 8. Dex by level 16. At max level, you even have a free feat to play with (or get more Con.) If you qualify, Elven Accuracy is even better.</blockquote>

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