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Martials should just get free feats
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<blockquote data-quote="GMforPowergamers" data-source="post: 8976638" data-attributes="member: 67338"><p>95% tank not 95% hp... fighters have a good AC (but all classes can normally end withn 2ish of each other) but a wizard can drop a shield for +5... and the bladesinger will almost always be better AC thent he fighter prof time per day. </p><p>the war cleric and hexblade will almost always have the same AC as an equal fighter (I would NOT recomend the hexblade use shield but if they have to it is good) </p><p>the sword bard is the anomoly that most likely will not have the AC or the ability to negate attacks</p><p>the druid is SUPER weird with wildshape being impossible to nail down </p><p></p><p>I rarely see a caster with more then a 3pt spread with a fighter (baring a super optimized fighter) all the classes tend to bunch up in the 17-20 range. Mage armor lasts all day I rarely see mirrior image used (but not never) and blur is not the most common buff I have seen shield is. </p><p></p><p>shadow blade and blade song and green flame blade or booming blade and you out damage the fighter and have the AC of atleast the fighter... take blade song out and you do have a lower AC until you shield. </p><p></p><p>why is a subclass of wizard the best subclass in the game for the fighter specility... just this heere I think shows that the versitiiyl of the wizard (all casters) are too much... the war cleric and </p><p></p><p>before level 11 you wont... you can cantrip/weapon attack... at level 5 I think the fighter pulls</p><p></p><p>no the thing is the fighter CAN'T choose they have 1 thing tank/damage... (TBF they have SOME choise to better AC or Better damage but it is a narrow range of choose) the casters (wizard is only 1 example) CAN choose to do that as well or better BUT can also choose to do other things... they can't do EVERYTHING at the same time they have to choose... but sometimes they can choose encounter to encounter (a prep caster with good damage and defense buffs can still have some misc spells preped) sometimes day to day and sometimes by build (I don't know many people that spec into hexblade sword pact warlock for dungeons then switch to fey tome for RP... nor do I think it happens) </p><p></p><p>That is the Versitility of the casters... that non casters just don't have. THAT is my problem... something giving fighters extra damage doesn't help.... </p><p></p><p>the only excpetion is if you give the fighters enough damage and AC and HP that no caster could come close to it (say an optimized bladesinger or war cleric or hexblade with the best selection of spells can do 50-60% of that) then at least they are by far the best at what they do... </p><p></p><p>I have not playeed one with a 10 or lower but I have a firend who did make it through 12ish levels (mostly the frost maiden adventure) as an elf bladesinger with an 8 con... I though it insane. but he made it work... and that DM made them roll not take average for hp so some levels he got 1hp...</p><p></p><p>put on leather or studded leather (best if you find a magic suit but you have no control and a DM worried about AC should NOT put one in) and have a +2 from dex gives you a 13 or 14 AC when you blade dance that adds in (atleast +3 but maybe up to +5) bringing you normal AC to 16-19 in blade dance combats... if you 1/fight cast shield to negate a hit that brings you to 21-24 AC... if you have ANY magic item boosting AC you might be better then the fighter in the party and you are down on average 2hp per level. you can cast 0 spells in a day otther then shield (far from optimal) and cantrips (especially a weapon one or two) and keep up with the fighter.</p><p></p><p>Every spell you cast in a day, be it damage, or protective, or healing, or social buff or travel, or diviniation are all things the fighter can NOT choose to spend rescouses on (they just don't have them. </p><p></p><p>So yeah you can bea fighter (maybe about 90-95% of one really) and still have more options.</p><p>there is no fighter subclass (eldritch knight is the closest) that lets you be even 50% of the wizard role. </p><p></p><p>+15? what level are we talking? is this a level that you can already teleport, move mountains, and discover unkknowable lore with spell slots that the fighter can't dream of doing? you fell ever so slightly behind on damage (but not really green flame blade will deal weapon plus fire to target and an adjcet will take some fire, or booming blade will deal weapon damage plus cantrip damage and you can do that and make an extra attack... to the fighters 3 attacks) </p><p></p><p>wow, I have never seen someone upcast tthat... do you see it often? should my bladesinger/artificer try that? is it a big help? </p><p></p><p>but you have the option... you can CHOOSE touse the SoS on earliey encounters and save the damage for legendary at teh end (unless you spend the whole day dragon slaying... I mean if your 4-6 encounters today are 3 dragons, 1 black 2 red, then a lich followed by a demon lord then that will suck)</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="GMforPowergamers, post: 8976638, member: 67338"] 95% tank not 95% hp... fighters have a good AC (but all classes can normally end withn 2ish of each other) but a wizard can drop a shield for +5... and the bladesinger will almost always be better AC thent he fighter prof time per day. the war cleric and hexblade will almost always have the same AC as an equal fighter (I would NOT recomend the hexblade use shield but if they have to it is good) the sword bard is the anomoly that most likely will not have the AC or the ability to negate attacks the druid is SUPER weird with wildshape being impossible to nail down I rarely see a caster with more then a 3pt spread with a fighter (baring a super optimized fighter) all the classes tend to bunch up in the 17-20 range. Mage armor lasts all day I rarely see mirrior image used (but not never) and blur is not the most common buff I have seen shield is. shadow blade and blade song and green flame blade or booming blade and you out damage the fighter and have the AC of atleast the fighter... take blade song out and you do have a lower AC until you shield. why is a subclass of wizard the best subclass in the game for the fighter specility... just this heere I think shows that the versitiiyl of the wizard (all casters) are too much... the war cleric and before level 11 you wont... you can cantrip/weapon attack... at level 5 I think the fighter pulls no the thing is the fighter CAN'T choose they have 1 thing tank/damage... (TBF they have SOME choise to better AC or Better damage but it is a narrow range of choose) the casters (wizard is only 1 example) CAN choose to do that as well or better BUT can also choose to do other things... they can't do EVERYTHING at the same time they have to choose... but sometimes they can choose encounter to encounter (a prep caster with good damage and defense buffs can still have some misc spells preped) sometimes day to day and sometimes by build (I don't know many people that spec into hexblade sword pact warlock for dungeons then switch to fey tome for RP... nor do I think it happens) That is the Versitility of the casters... that non casters just don't have. THAT is my problem... something giving fighters extra damage doesn't help.... the only excpetion is if you give the fighters enough damage and AC and HP that no caster could come close to it (say an optimized bladesinger or war cleric or hexblade with the best selection of spells can do 50-60% of that) then at least they are by far the best at what they do... I have not playeed one with a 10 or lower but I have a firend who did make it through 12ish levels (mostly the frost maiden adventure) as an elf bladesinger with an 8 con... I though it insane. but he made it work... and that DM made them roll not take average for hp so some levels he got 1hp... put on leather or studded leather (best if you find a magic suit but you have no control and a DM worried about AC should NOT put one in) and have a +2 from dex gives you a 13 or 14 AC when you blade dance that adds in (atleast +3 but maybe up to +5) bringing you normal AC to 16-19 in blade dance combats... if you 1/fight cast shield to negate a hit that brings you to 21-24 AC... if you have ANY magic item boosting AC you might be better then the fighter in the party and you are down on average 2hp per level. you can cast 0 spells in a day otther then shield (far from optimal) and cantrips (especially a weapon one or two) and keep up with the fighter. Every spell you cast in a day, be it damage, or protective, or healing, or social buff or travel, or diviniation are all things the fighter can NOT choose to spend rescouses on (they just don't have them. So yeah you can bea fighter (maybe about 90-95% of one really) and still have more options. there is no fighter subclass (eldritch knight is the closest) that lets you be even 50% of the wizard role. +15? what level are we talking? is this a level that you can already teleport, move mountains, and discover unkknowable lore with spell slots that the fighter can't dream of doing? you fell ever so slightly behind on damage (but not really green flame blade will deal weapon plus fire to target and an adjcet will take some fire, or booming blade will deal weapon damage plus cantrip damage and you can do that and make an extra attack... to the fighters 3 attacks) wow, I have never seen someone upcast tthat... do you see it often? should my bladesinger/artificer try that? is it a big help? but you have the option... you can CHOOSE touse the SoS on earliey encounters and save the damage for legendary at teh end (unless you spend the whole day dragon slaying... I mean if your 4-6 encounters today are 3 dragons, 1 black 2 red, then a lich followed by a demon lord then that will suck) [/QUOTE]
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