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Martials should just get free feats
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<blockquote data-quote="EzekielRaiden" data-source="post: 8993460" data-attributes="member: 6790260"><p>Extremely well-said.</p><p></p><p>The Wizard getting left out because they can't <em>opt into</em> being identical to the fighter except also having <em>the entire Wizard class on top</em> is so mind-boggling to me, I genuinely would have thought it was a parody if ECMO3 were not so earnest about it.</p><p></p><p>The Wizard has five apples and one egg, and can choose to either get two more apples, or four eggs.</p><p></p><p>The Fighter has just five eggs, and can choose to get two more eggs in various colors.</p><p></p><p>It is <em>absolutely mind-boggling</em> that, when someone says, "I would like to give the Fighter more eggs, so that the Wizard-dabbling-in-Fighter isn't essentially the same PLUS all their baseline Wizard features," the response is, "No, you cannot do that. If you give the Fighter extra eggs, you MUST give the Wizard exactly as many eggs, otherwise you're shortchanging the Wizard."</p><p></p><p>Shortchanging the Wizard--or, rather, <em>not</em> giving them anything more than they currently have--is the WHOLE POINT. Spells are significantly more powerful, and I want the Fighter to get something that ISN'T spells but that DOES make up for (some small part of) the existing gap. I don't want a Fighter that casts spells. I don't want <em>Paladins or Rangers</em> who cast spells! I want a Fighter that brings enough to the party such that you really, actually have to sit down and think, "Hmm. Can we <em>afford</em> to bring a Wizard instead of a Fighter?" I want a Fighter who is so good at <em>the things Fighters do</em> that it becomes unclear whether it would be better to have a Fighter or a Wizard in your party, and where a Wizard who dabbles in Fighter is as bad at Fighter-things as a Fighter who dabbles in Wizard is at Wizard things.</p><p></p><p>Fighters who cast spells to the same degree that a full spellcaster does <em>aren't Fighters anymore</em>. They've become some other thing entirely. It is absolutely, 100% possible to create Fighters that are interesting, tactical, diverse, and engaging WITHOUT giving them spells. It is not possible to do that within the limits of 5e as it is currently designed, but feats are a poor man's solution that don't require rewriting the game. Feats will never, ever be as powerful as full spellcasting, but they can bridge at least <em>some</em> of the ridiculous power and flexibility gap between "I can attack four times" and "I can<em> rewrite reality</em> once a day."</p><p></p><p>Giving the Fighter spells is absolutely, 100% unacceptable. Full stop. It never will <em>be</em> acceptable. Because a character that has Wizard spellcasting and also has Fighter fighting ability <em>isn't a Fighter anymore</em>.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="EzekielRaiden, post: 8993460, member: 6790260"] Extremely well-said. The Wizard getting left out because they can't [I]opt into[/I] being identical to the fighter except also having [I]the entire Wizard class on top[/I] is so mind-boggling to me, I genuinely would have thought it was a parody if ECMO3 were not so earnest about it. The Wizard has five apples and one egg, and can choose to either get two more apples, or four eggs. The Fighter has just five eggs, and can choose to get two more eggs in various colors. It is [I]absolutely mind-boggling[/I] that, when someone says, "I would like to give the Fighter more eggs, so that the Wizard-dabbling-in-Fighter isn't essentially the same PLUS all their baseline Wizard features," the response is, "No, you cannot do that. If you give the Fighter extra eggs, you MUST give the Wizard exactly as many eggs, otherwise you're shortchanging the Wizard." Shortchanging the Wizard--or, rather, [I]not[/I] giving them anything more than they currently have--is the WHOLE POINT. Spells are significantly more powerful, and I want the Fighter to get something that ISN'T spells but that DOES make up for (some small part of) the existing gap. I don't want a Fighter that casts spells. I don't want [I]Paladins or Rangers[/I] who cast spells! I want a Fighter that brings enough to the party such that you really, actually have to sit down and think, "Hmm. Can we [I]afford[/I] to bring a Wizard instead of a Fighter?" I want a Fighter who is so good at [I]the things Fighters do[/I] that it becomes unclear whether it would be better to have a Fighter or a Wizard in your party, and where a Wizard who dabbles in Fighter is as bad at Fighter-things as a Fighter who dabbles in Wizard is at Wizard things. Fighters who cast spells to the same degree that a full spellcaster does [I]aren't Fighters anymore[/I]. They've become some other thing entirely. It is absolutely, 100% possible to create Fighters that are interesting, tactical, diverse, and engaging WITHOUT giving them spells. It is not possible to do that within the limits of 5e as it is currently designed, but feats are a poor man's solution that don't require rewriting the game. Feats will never, ever be as powerful as full spellcasting, but they can bridge at least [I]some[/I] of the ridiculous power and flexibility gap between "I can attack four times" and "I can[I] rewrite reality[/I] once a day." Giving the Fighter spells is absolutely, 100% unacceptable. Full stop. It never will [I]be[/I] acceptable. Because a character that has Wizard spellcasting and also has Fighter fighting ability [I]isn't a Fighter anymore[/I]. [/QUOTE]
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