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Martials should just get free feats
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<blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 8993648" data-attributes="member: 7030563"><p>You aren't penalized. The rules are there, you take it knowing what the abilities and limitations are.</p><p></p><p>I have never felt penalized by my choice to play a fighter. I know other people have and I am not saying that isn't their experience, but you will hurt the fun for a lot of people if you put fighters "out of reach"</p><p></p><p>If you choose to optimize your fighter for combat with weapons, you will not be outmatched in that role by any other single classed character with the same ability rolls.</p><p></p><p>When a fighter is outmatched in combat with weapons it is either because they got crap rolls compared to another character, or because they made character build decisions that drive their character that way. Assuming equal abilities - playing a small race, taking non-combat feats, boosting Chrisma, Intelligence or Wisdom instead of Constitution will all mean a fighter will not be as viable with weapon combat as someone who did not make those choices and in that case; yes someone who purposely optimizes another class for weapon combat can outmatch the fighter. Those are "eyes open" decisions though. You know that you are sacrificing power in combat when you make those decisions, as those other classes are sacrificing power in other ways as well.</p><p></p><p>For example, a Bladesinger that is going full on into melee at high level is going to be burning a crap ton of high level slots on false life to keep up with a basic fighter with no subclass. They are sacrificing quite a bit to maintain that status quo. They are also going to be either sacrificing their first round of combat throwing up a defensive spell, or they are going to be sacrificing their opportunity attacks on reaction spells and Song of Defense or both. Now that build can outmatch certain fighter builds in weapon combat, and will outmatch a basic subclass-free fighter with no feats. But it is stupid easy to build a fighter to keep up with or be better than that bladesinger in melee with weapons with the right subclass and ASI choices.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Not really. It is not about giving the fighter new fun things, because as soon as you mention giving those same things to other classes too people don't want to do that.</p><p></p><p>If you need X, Y and Z to "make fighter fun" then you the fighter not hurt by giving those same things to other classes. You can still play a fighter and do those things, this is more about not letting other players do those things.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You can already make it bigger with subclass selection as those other classes are narrowing that gap with subclass selections.</p><p></p><p>If you don't consider subclasses, the fighter is already WAY, WAY ahead of full casters in weapon combat and to be honest way ahead of Barbarians and Rangers too. When it comes to <em>class </em>they are really in a <em>class</em> all their own.</p><p></p><p>In an earlier reply to you I posted observations on a Cleric who can sneak, open locks and disable traps and on a Rogue who can fly over lava and use magic missile - do you not think those options should be allowed either or that we need to put rules in place so characters besides Rogues and Wizards/Sorcerers can't do those things effectively?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="ECMO3, post: 8993648, member: 7030563"] You aren't penalized. The rules are there, you take it knowing what the abilities and limitations are. I have never felt penalized by my choice to play a fighter. I know other people have and I am not saying that isn't their experience, but you will hurt the fun for a lot of people if you put fighters "out of reach" If you choose to optimize your fighter for combat with weapons, you will not be outmatched in that role by any other single classed character with the same ability rolls. When a fighter is outmatched in combat with weapons it is either because they got crap rolls compared to another character, or because they made character build decisions that drive their character that way. Assuming equal abilities - playing a small race, taking non-combat feats, boosting Chrisma, Intelligence or Wisdom instead of Constitution will all mean a fighter will not be as viable with weapon combat as someone who did not make those choices and in that case; yes someone who purposely optimizes another class for weapon combat can outmatch the fighter. Those are "eyes open" decisions though. You know that you are sacrificing power in combat when you make those decisions, as those other classes are sacrificing power in other ways as well. For example, a Bladesinger that is going full on into melee at high level is going to be burning a crap ton of high level slots on false life to keep up with a basic fighter with no subclass. They are sacrificing quite a bit to maintain that status quo. They are also going to be either sacrificing their first round of combat throwing up a defensive spell, or they are going to be sacrificing their opportunity attacks on reaction spells and Song of Defense or both. Now that build can outmatch certain fighter builds in weapon combat, and will outmatch a basic subclass-free fighter with no feats. But it is stupid easy to build a fighter to keep up with or be better than that bladesinger in melee with weapons with the right subclass and ASI choices. Not really. It is not about giving the fighter new fun things, because as soon as you mention giving those same things to other classes too people don't want to do that. If you need X, Y and Z to "make fighter fun" then you the fighter not hurt by giving those same things to other classes. You can still play a fighter and do those things, this is more about not letting other players do those things. You can already make it bigger with subclass selection as those other classes are narrowing that gap with subclass selections. If you don't consider subclasses, the fighter is already WAY, WAY ahead of full casters in weapon combat and to be honest way ahead of Barbarians and Rangers too. When it comes to [I]class [/I]they are really in a [I]class[/I] all their own. In an earlier reply to you I posted observations on a Cleric who can sneak, open locks and disable traps and on a Rogue who can fly over lava and use magic missile - do you not think those options should be allowed either or that we need to put rules in place so characters besides Rogues and Wizards/Sorcerers can't do those things effectively? [/QUOTE]
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