Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lancelot" data-source="post: 4847490" data-attributes="member: 30022">I understand that the original definition of Mary Sue has something to do with the character being a stand-in for the author, but I think the term has evolved to the point where it includes (for many people, including myself) an idealized character that is so awesome that no other character can top it. It's sort of like "My fictional creation is bigger than your fictional creation...".Given that, and I don't think Ed Greenwood is necessarily to blame for this, but Elminster is absolutely the poster-child for Mary Sue-ness.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">As statted, he's ludicrously powerful and adept. He is a little bit of everything, and (despite weak explanations why he doesn't just 'port in and take out every major bad guy on the planet) he can take nearly anything on paper.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Mystra is an ex-lover. Regardless of his other bedroom conquests, that's... quite a claim. And he's a Chosen, as well.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">All of the women he's been with are described as having power and beauty on a goddess-like scale. I guess they've got to match his power to maintain some level of equity, but he's not much of a looker. I think I'd like Elminster more if his partner appeared more age-appropriate, but I guess grandmothers would look odd in silky revealing robes...</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">He can outwit or out-sass gods and archdevils alike, to say nothing of poor incompetent super-villains like Manshoon and Sammaster.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">He's everywhere. I hated seeing him the first time while playing Baldur's Gate, and I *really* hated seeing him the 3rd or 4th time (...where, like most portrayals of Elminster, he pops up to say something mysterious, implying that he knows so much more than you, and then vanishes without really doing anything meaninfgul). He's just... smug. And irritating.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The constant positioning of Elminster as the uber-wizard, not just of the Realms, but of all D&D worlds. The old Wizards Three articles in Dragon usually had Elminster portrayed as more knowledgeable (or at least more laid-back and in control) than Mordenkainen, and Dalamar came off as a punk-@ss kid by comparison.</li> </ul>I live for the day that Mordenkainen feeds Elminster to the Altar of the Elder Elemental God. Unfortunately, I suspect that Mord would need Raistlin, Gandalf, Merlin and Lady Vol simply just to take Elminster down for a couple rounds, and he'd probably just give the Elder Eye a wedgie (and sleep with Iggwilv) for their trouble...</blockquote>

Verification