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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jeff Wilder" data-source="post: 1290098" data-attributes="member: 5122">Put me in the (apparently small) camp of those who don't think the "Reflex save" massed volley rules are terrible.  In fact, I like them for their simplicity.Volleying archers aren't targeting individual foes.  Essentially, they're simply creating a "rain of arrows."In D&D, saving throws (as passive) are distinguished from other types of active rolls.  Avoiding an essentially random rain of arrows -- like avoiding a landslide -- is exactly what a Reflex save is designed for.That said, I do agree that it doesn't match the mechanic for some projectile traps published.  But to the extent that the two types of projectile fire can't be distinguished -- ballistic versus flat trajectory, force versus gravity, and so on -- the problem IMO is with those traps, not with the mechanic for massed arrow fire.Speaking as a DM, I appreciate the simplicity, as I've said.  Speaking as a player, I'd much much rather be on the "wrong" side of these quick and useful rules than deal with a DM who spends 15 minutes or more making sure the volley of arrows matches both his definition of "realism" and his definition of "proper D&D mechanics."</blockquote>