Mass battle, Cry Havoc?

[Eldorian]

Probably the most exciting adventure I ever ran (for me and the players) was a mass battle where the PCs attacked a goblin, hobgobling, and troll army from behind with an army of dwarves, while the goblins where seiging a city. I didn't roll the attacks and what not of units the PCs didn't actually fight, but the PCs had a blast wiping out the crew of a goblin mechanical seige device and then driving it thru the rear guard of the goblin army. As such, the battle had more of a cinematic feel to it rather than a wargaming feel. It played kinda like the Two Towers looked, or Braveheart, or the opening battle of Gladiator.

So basically, what I'm really asking, is "Does Cry Havoc have the kinda rules I'd need to run a similar adventure, or even campaign?" Cause I mostly improvised the whole night. I had a the idea of having the PCs take over that siege weapon (which was like a poorly armored tank with rotating blades on the front). I knew my players well enough to know they'd probably use the device, though I didn't expect them to rush straight into large masses of enemies. Most of the fighting with the device was very wordy, and not much dicey, and I don't think my players really minded that thier actions were determined by what I said, but I'd like to be able to run similar adventures where they would be able to use the dice to determine effectiveness. Otherwise I think they might feel I'm railroading them. Also I'd like to give my players the option of running a battle, instead of just being soldiers in the battle.

The main reason I'm asking this is cause I recently bought the Warcraft D20 book, and it keeps referencing a future book that will use the Cry Havoc battle rules to run fights, and I'm thinking of starting a game that has more of a mass combat feel to it, with some side adventures, ala Warcraft 3, if anyone has played it. Maybe a close to even mix of large battles and "seek the magic item that will enable us to fight the enemy" type quests.

Also, I'm wondering if the Warcraft books will reprint the needed Cry Havoc rules, or if I'll need to buy that too. I've been a fan of cinematic feeling mass battles in DnD for a long time now, so I wouldn't mind buying it.

Any informed advice is welcome, or just random replies too =P

Eldorian Antar

 

[Varianor Abroad]

(snip) ....I'd like to be able to run similar adventures where they would be able to use the dice to determine effectiveness. Otherwise I think they might feel I'm railroading them. Also I'd like to give my players the option of running a battle, instead of just being soldiers in the battle.
....

Also, I'm wondering if the Warcraft books will reprint the needed Cry Havoc rules, or if I'll need to buy that too. I've been a fan of cinematic feeling mass battles in DnD for a long time now, so I wouldn't mind buying it.

Any informed advice is welcome, or just random replies too =P

Eldorian Antar

Hi! Your post seems to have a conflict. You mention a great experience winging a battle, and ask if Cry Havoc will support that. Then you go on to ask if it can handle mass combat with die rolls so that your players don't feel railroaded. The answer is that it doesn't have rules for improvising, but you already have the tools for that. (And it sounds like your players had fun.)

What it does have are rules for extending D&D combat to a battlefield. Pure and simple. (It also has systems for determing the results of battles with just a few die rolls.) If you know d20 combat, know you can do it on a larger scale. Want your players to be in charge? They can be Hero Commanders. Want to pause a big battle for a climactic encounter with a big enemy? There's rules for that. Warcraft is going to use Cry Havoc from what I've read, but I don't know how. Nor do I have Warcraft yet. But having playtested CH, I can say that it's a must have if you want to run a war that the players take a role in.

The cinematic element, just so you know, is already in the game and it sounds like you have an instinct for it. I ran a big mass battle with half-dragon goblins, dragons, barbarians, rogues equipped with potion injectors to turn invisible and fly, halfling archers and knights on horseback, all in a valley outside a raging blizzard caused by an Orb of Dragonkind (sorta). So it can be done.

Good luck with your game!

 

[Eldorian]

Hi! Your post seems to have a conflict. You mention a great experience winging a battle, and ask if Cry Havoc will support that. Then you go on to ask if it can handle mass combat with die rolls so that your players don't feel railroaded. The answer is that it doesn't have rules for improvising, but you already have the tools for that. (And it sounds like your players had fun.)

It's not really a conflict.. I ran an adventure that we really liked, but it was very rules lite. I'd like to run similar adventures, but I feel that too many rules lite adventures would get the PCs to feeling that they have no control over the events. So I was wondering if Cry Havoc is good system for it.

Anyways, thanks for the rely.

Eldorian Antar

 

[Nightfall]

El,

Well it might not a system EVERYONE will embrace, but I do think if you want your PCs to be able to command troops, or have them participate in large scale mass combat, Cry Havoc isn't a bad way to not. Not sure it's tbe BEST but it's not bad that's for sure.

 

[Upper_Krust]

Hi Eldorian mate!

There is a lengthy review here:

http://www.gamewyrd.com/review/344

 

[Eldorian]

Hi Eldorian mate!

There is a lengthy review here:

http://www.gamewyrd.com/review/344

Yah, I have read that review. The problem with that review, and the other one I found searching ENworld's news archive, is that the reviewer has seemingly never played with the rules, and doesn't mention any type of adventure he played with the rules, which is what I'm looking for. I'm looking for someone that has attempted run a battle with a cinematic feel, using these rules, and whether he was successful or not. Yah, I'm picky.

Eldorian Antar

 

[Nightfall]

El,

Give me a while...

 

[BiggusGeekus]

Yah, I have read that review. The problem with that review, and the other one I found searching ENworld's news archive, is that the reviewer has seemingly never played with the rules, and doesn't mention any type of adventure he played with the rules, which is what I'm looking for. I'm looking for someone that has attempted run a battle with a cinematic feel, using these rules, and whether he was successful or not. Yah, I'm picky.

That isn't picky at all. Mass combat has to be playtested. Otherwise why not just invest $200 in Warhammer and assign the PCs point values? There are some things that can be read over and effectively reviewed, however new mechanics that encompass subplots are not one of them. I wouldn't trust an unplaytested mass combat system any more than I'd trust an unplaytested psionics system.

 

[Eldorian]

That isn't picky at all. Mass combat has to be playtested. Otherwise why not just invest $200 in Warhammer and assign the PCs point values? There are some things that can be read over and effectively reviewed, however new mechanics that encompass subplots are not one of them. I wouldn't trust an unplaytested mass combat system any more than I'd trust an unplaytested psionics system.

Thanks for confirming my insistance on actual game experience, Biggus. =)

Now.. you wouldn't happen to have any, would ya? =)


Eldorian Antar

 

[BiggusGeekus]

Thanks for confirming my insistance on actual game experience, Biggus. =)

Now.. you wouldn't happen to have any, would ya?

I leave the stuntwork to guys like Nightfall and Psion. Last time I playtested a stray d12 took a bounce off a DMs screen and left me mildly paralyzed in my left knee. Playtesting isn't always pretty, man.